Spanish galleon may contain biggest treasure haul ever found on seabed • Hacker News Board

Re: Spanish galleon may contain biggest treasure haul ever found on seabed

#41

Post by pjmlp » Sun, Dec 06, 2015, 7:07 PM UTC

saool wrote: post #33

pjmlp wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that we have to thank the old Spanish and Portuguese empires for their role in extinguishing South American cultures.

Your point is that you feel queasy about how brutal life was back then and you wanted to throw some shade to feel better about your obviously better moral standards, and in doing so you missed the shot in the map by thousands of miles. Here's some reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Legend

I come from a little place in the Iberian peninsula...

As someone that loves to study history, read old mediaeval documents, I know pretty well what our ancestors did.

Re: Spanish galleon may contain biggest treasure haul ever found on seabed

#42

Post by rockyleal » Mon, Dec 07, 2015, 2:04 AM UTC

jorgon wrote: post #29

rockyleal wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Empire which was revoked due to being an illegitimate and genocidal regime. Your argument suggests they should be allowed to re-steal now what they would have stolen back then.

Some American talking about genocide... That's really a joke!

Who said I am American?

Re: Spanish galleon may contain biggest treasure haul ever found on seabed

#43

Post by karmapolice » Mon, Dec 07, 2015, 7:22 AM UTC

golergka wrote: post #35

rockyleal wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me too. It would be cleaner, unpolluted, less bloody, and the native cultures would probably be blossoming and making interesting stuff by combining their knowledge with outside influences. Too bad most of them were exterminated and dispossessed (the galleon being just one instance of that dispossession), and too bad they continue to be institutionally and structurally marginalised, decimated, and dispossessed.

Why? The spaniards have been better prepared for war and overcame the local population in bloody conquest — this is a historical fact that no one will argue with. How, from this fact, do people come to an assumption that local population had higher moral values than invading spaniards? Have you completely no idea what pre-columbian era indian cultures were like? I mean, not today's "New Age" versions that have been a…

In fact, most of the army Hernán Cortés used to overcome the Aztec empire were natives that hated the oppressive power of the aztecs. He managed to exploit these regional feuds, and also internal problems of the Aztec government.

The spaniards alone were a skeleton crew, not enough to conquest anything that big, despite having better technology.

Re: Spanish galleon may contain biggest treasure haul ever found on seabed

#44

Post by j_s » Mon, Dec 07, 2015, 5:17 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #22

akavel wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The text of the article currently seems to talk about Colombia 's “national cultural patrimony” -- I couldn't find much about Spain; was it edited? was the earlier text quoting Spain?

Thanks, I stand corrected. New policy: I should read twice, then say nothing. I'll sound much smarter.

No! Don't let one mistake get you down... this site is not much more than its participants (not the spectators), that's what makes it special.

Re: Spanish galleon may contain biggest treasure haul ever found on seabed

#45

Post by saool » Tue, Dec 08, 2015, 2:20 AM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #41

saool wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point is that you feel queasy about how brutal life was back then and you wanted to throw some shade to feel better about your obviously better moral standards, and in doing so you missed the shot in the map by thousands of miles. Here's some reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Legend

I come from a little place in the Iberian peninsula... As someone that loves to study history, read old mediaeval documents, I know pretty well what our ancestors did.

As do I, and that's why I understand the whole "generational white guilt" spiel, cause I hear it often. Even an educated person such as yourself will be quick to jump the gun.

I get it, condemning their actions gives you the higher moral ground, you feel like a mensch and somehow detach you from whatever shared responsibility you think you shoulder.

IMHO, we can't judge old-day actions with current-day ethics. The same way we don't generally allow ex post facto law, we should be careful to deliver ex post facto moral judgement. If there's a place for moral relativism, it is probably when comparing different times in history.

That is not to say I excuse everything that was done during the colonial times —there are plenty of recollections of senseless atrocities— but there's definitely a tendency to look at all this in a reductionistic and emotional way that I don't think is fair.