Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

arstechnica.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 273 posts

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#131

Post by GrumpyBen »

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #125
GrumpyBen wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not ecologists, they're anti-globalization anarchists that protested against a new airport by destroying shops in downtown Nantes. They recently threw at the police candles that people left at the memorial for the Paris attacks. I consider myself an ecologist but I have no sympathy for these people.

Can you read French? https://wiki.laquadrature.net/%C3%89tat_urgence/Recensement#... People who commit crimes should be fined or arrested. These are preventive house arrests for crimes that they might commit in the future. You really don't see the problem with this?

They also banned alcohol sales at night in some places for the same simple reason: the police has better things to do right now than dealing with drunk people or anarchists

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#132

Post by swsieber »

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #126
wsc981 wrote: post #124

Socialist regimes have been te most suppressive in peoples history. Think about Pol Pot, Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, etc… Socialism kills [0]. Or a more eloquent and less extreme read would be "The Road to Serfdom" by F. A. Hayek --- [0]: http://jim.com/killingfields.html

This is not extreme left, it's center-left. The distinction is important, otherwise we'd reduce everything to communism and fascism.

What's terrible is that we only put politicians on a single axis.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#133

Post by tajen »

rwmj wrote: post #5

All this because 130 people were killed. What would they do to prevent the 4600 people killed in road accidents in France last year? Or the 49000 people killed by alcohol [in 2009]?

You really should use tobacco for your example:

- With car accidents people say it's inevitable, even though it's incorrect;

- With alcohol they say they're guilty;

- With 200 non-smoker deaths every fortnight in France, it is had the same properties as terrorism: people are innocent, taken away at random, and the risk increases during leisure time.

And we don't do a minute of silence for the fallen.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#134

Post by Kristine1975 »

wsc981 wrote: post #124

Socialist regimes have been te most suppressive in peoples history. Think about Pol Pot, Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, etc… Socialism kills [0]. Or a more eloquent and less extreme read would be "The Road to Serfdom" by F. A. Hayek --- [0]: http://jim.com/killingfields.html

>Hitler

>Socialist

Just because the Nazis called themselves National Socialists doesn't make them socialists. Communists and socialists were the first the Nazis sent to concentration camps.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#135

Post by cryoshon »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #100
ultramancool wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm getting really afraid of these authoritarian opportunists. Seems much more likely to have an impact on my life than terrorist attacks at least...

I'm genuinely more afraid of the people who are afraid right now than I am of the people who they think I should be afraid of. The anti-Muslim rhetoric (e.g. yelling "All Muslims are terrorists" at town meetings) scares the hell out of me. How easily could that attitude be shifted towards any arbitrary group with just one or two tragic events?

On one hand, it's unquestionable that radical Islam is an aggressor that is funding and directing terror attacks.

On the other hand, Muslims are people too, and it is extremely unjust to punish all Muslims for the actions of a radical sect. I think that Europe is in danger of lurching rightward and tempting the return of ethno-religious cleansing. Fascism is not pretty, and the danger for Europeans is real.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#136

Post by cryoshon »

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #106
gotchange wrote: post #37

The French regime again showing its ugly authoritarian and statist face with these draconian bills. It wasn't enough for them to put environmentalists under house arrest and subject innocent people to humiliating mandatory reporting to different police stations 3 times a day or obligatory curfew for certain people or neighborhoods without any judicial oversight. [0] I knew it from the beginning that they would abuse…

And this is the left in power. It's going to get worse when the right and the extreme right get their turn.

Isn't this absolutely terrifying? People being rounded up, house arrest, cities locked down, violence against immigrants. It's a very bad look, and it's especially hard to criticize the response in the wake of the attacks.

Rather than fight and complain piecemeal in response to government oversteps in their attempts to stop terror, dissenters need to formulate a concrete affirmative plan for dealing with terror while maintaining civil liberties and privacy. I'm not sure exactly what this plan would look like, but without something organized to push for, the government is going to keep getting their way and making everyone less free.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#137

Post by aikah »

Yes, our government is going full r-tard. I fail to see the difference right now, between the "left" and the far right to which the left loves pointing fingers at. With the state of emergency, the left is behaving exactly like fascists.

Now imagine the left voting all these anti-freedom laws, suspending (some) human rights (as it is the case now), and in 2 years, the far right coming into power and using the laws the left voted for their own benefits.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#138

Post by gherkin0 »

Angostura wrote: post #26
jacquesm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cynical view is that these people are simply using the attacks as a way to push through legislation that they wanted to push through regardless. Politicians like these are just opportunists and would use any hot button issue to get their way because they know that's the easiest way to railroad through their pet laws. It's easy to get people to vote against their own interest, all you need is fear. There are many…

The slightly less cynical view is that they know that the next time something happens they know that - if encryption is involved, they will be absolutely pilloried by the popular press, opposition etc. for "not doing everything that can be done". It takes a certain determination to stand up to that kind of threat.

> The slightly less cynical view is that they know that the next time something happens they know that - if encryption is involved, they will be absolutely pilloried by the popular press, opposition etc. for "not doing everything that can be done".

And the slightly more cynical view is that they are using the attacks to push through legislation that they wanted for other reasons AND they're using a story of hypothetical public opinion after hypothetical future events to make themselves seem more sympathetic.

And this is also not this is "doing everything that can be done." The Paris attackers didn't even use encryption and the attacks were not prevented, so there's a lot more things that they'd need to do before banning Tor and open wifi would even make a difference. So they'd still open to criticism from the same angle; score one for cynicism.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#139

Post by Kristine1975 »

GrumpyBen wrote: post #131
stefantalpalaru wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you read French? https://wiki.laquadrature.net/%C3%89tat_urgence/Recensement#... People who commit crimes should be fined or arrested. These are preventive house arrests for crimes that they might commit in the future. You really don't see the problem with this?

They also banned alcohol sales at night in some places for the same simple reason: the police has better things to do right now than dealing with drunk people or anarchists

So much for "liberté"... which precisely seems to be what gotchange was talking about.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#140

Post by tdkl »

aikah wrote: post #137

Yes, our government is going full r-tard. I fail to see the difference right now, between the "left" and the far right to which the left loves pointing fingers at. With the state of emergency, the left is behaving exactly like fascists. Now imagine the left voting all these anti-freedom laws, suspending (some) human rights (as it is the case now), and in 2 years, the far right coming into power and using the laws the…

I've been thinking this for some time lately, that while the notion of radical right is known and avoided in the modern world, the radical left is actually more harmful :

- it's not that known to deal with it, since if you raise questions, you're labeled as right,

- with this it powers the actual radical right.

Post reply on HN