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France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

arstechnica.co.uk

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Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#61

Post by leaveyou »

s_q_b wrote: post #42
jacquesm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cynical view is that these people are simply using the attacks as a way to push through legislation that they wanted to push through regardless. Politicians like these are just opportunists and would use any hot button issue to get their way because they know that's the easiest way to railroad through their pet laws. It's easy to get people to vote against their own interest, all you need is fear. There are many…

The cynical view is that these people are simply using the attacks as a way to push through legislation that they wanted to push through regardless. I agree. However, I believe the reason for this is more legislative laziness than anything else. In the wake of a terrorist attack, the public demands that laws be changed to make them safer. The executive's law enforcement and intelligence agencies typically have a wish…

"In the wake of a terrorist attack, the public demands that laws be changed to make them safer" = false. The public never said that. You can watch any public rally condemning any terrorist attack and you will never see: "we want more laws and tighter filters and controls everywhere and higher and more taxes spent on security and defense". That's what the government says that "the public wants". In reality most of the public just asks themselves why the authorities are so lazy and or incompetent to use the tools and the powers they already have and why so many terrorists were already known to the special services which so often "fail to recognize the danger or act". And I bet a lot of people start to ask themselves why these terrorists blame the UK, French and US governments and armies for invading their lands but they keep attacking UK, French and US civilians which, is obvious by now, are incapable of controlling their governments and armies at all. It's the governments and the armies who try to "destroy ISIS" not the civilians, wouldn't make sense for ISIS to attack governments instead of civilians ?

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#62

Post by ikeboy »

rwmj wrote: post #34
Angostura wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are huge numbers of laws in place to try and minimise road deaths, including compulsory licensing of people found competent to drive, speed limits, compulsory periodic testing of cars for roadworthiness. So you know the answer to the first part of your question.

Sure - but to really crack down on road deaths, how about declaring a state of emergency that prevents anyone from driving at all? If you understand why that would be stupid, you'll understand why trying to introduce the GFW of China to France is a bad idea.

I think that would be a great idea as soon as autonomous cars are available for purchase.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#64

Post by s_q_b »

jacquesm wrote: post #51
s_q_b wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cynical view is that these people are simply using the attacks as a way to push through legislation that they wanted to push through regardless. I agree. However, I believe the reason for this is more legislative laziness than anything else. In the wake of a terrorist attack, the public demands that laws be changed to make them safer. The executive's law enforcement and intelligence agencies typically have a wish…

> In the wake of a terrorist attack, the public demands that laws be changed to make them safer. Ah, but therein lies a little problem: we probably can't be made safer and eventually this will become obvious to the general population as well. Terrorists have it super easy in soft bellied countries like the west. We have but two choices: change our societies drastically for the worse or accept the fact that complete s…

We're definitely on the same page.

[W]e probably can't be made safer and eventually this will become obvious to the general population as well...

Exactly. How can you stop a few individuals from shooting up public spaces, especially in the United States? For that matter, how would you stop a pair of family members from carrying out attacks with homemade bombs?

We have but two choices: change our societies drastically for the worse or accept the fact that complete safety and societies such as the ones that we live in are mutually incompatible.

Agreed.

If we win this conflict, but sacrifice who we are in the process, then we are no better than those whom we fight.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#65

Post by mynewtb »

r-w wrote: post #27

The U.K. is already far beyond illiberal, but I can’t see Germany going this way. They’ve long been on the right side of the Internet, and I doubt they’ll have any need to do otherwise anytime soon.

German politicians and lobbyists are continuously pushing year after year. I fear the public losing interest in opposition.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#66

Post by s_q_b »

Kristine1975 wrote: post #55
s_q_b wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's the insane view.

Why? Pseudo-Operations are a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_Flag#Pseudo-operations >Similar false flag tactics were also employed during the Algerian civil war, starting in the middle of 1994. Death squads composed of Département du Renseignement et de la Sécurité (DRS) security forces disguised themselves as Islamist terrorists and committed false flag terror attacks.

God, I can't wait until you find out about Operation Gladio...

Conspiracy theories are comforting, in a way, because they project the belief that somebody is in control. The truth is far more terrifying: no one is in control.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#67

Post by reacweb »

s_q_b wrote: post #45
paulddraper wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more cynical view is that the government perpetrates the attack to provide the opportunity, ala 9/11 conspiracy theories.

No, that's the insane view.

I do not know if it is insane in general, but in the case of french political responsible, I would not bet on conspiracy theories: most of their acts seem to exhibit a complete lack of anticipation.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#68

Post by laotzu »

jacquesm wrote: post #17
reacweb wrote: post #13

I think we should really investigate the writers of these two new pieces of legislation. These people are a bigger threat for all our values than all the terrorists of the world. The only good answer to terrorism is to not surrender freedom.

The cynical view is that these people are simply using the attacks as a way to push through legislation that they wanted to push through regardless. Politicians like these are just opportunists and would use any hot button issue to get their way because they know that's the easiest way to railroad through their pet laws. It's easy to get people to vote against their own interest, all you need is fear. There are many…

>It’s true that many governments have been set up during such storms; but in those cases it was the governments themselves that destroyed the state. Usurpers always create or select times of disturbance and public fear to get destructive laws passed—laws that the people would never have adopted when they were thinking coolly. One of the surest ways of distinguishing a legislator’s work from a tyrant’s is through the question: When did he choose to act?

-Jean-Jacques Rousseau, The Social Contract

http://www.earlymoderntexts.com/assets/pdfs/rousseau1762.pdf

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#69

Post by realusername »

drdaeman wrote: post #59
realusername wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And as far as I know, they did not use any encryption anyway, so I don't even see the point here, it's totally unrelated. Should we ban unencrypted connections then since that's what they used ?

Let's get to the root of it - they were humans. We should definitely ban those. Mankind is evil anyway - just think of how many victims it had! /s

Exactly, and they committed crimes using cars ! I mean, it can't just be a coincidence, in the previous Charlie Hebdo attacks, the guys also used a car to escape from there ! If we ban cars, then no more attacks, it cannot be any simpler than that !

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#70

Post by ultramancool »

gotchange wrote: post #37

The French regime again showing its ugly authoritarian and statist face with these draconian bills. It wasn't enough for them to put environmentalists under house arrest and subject innocent people to humiliating mandatory reporting to different police stations 3 times a day or obligatory curfew for certain people or neighborhoods without any judicial oversight. [0] I knew it from the beginning that they would abuse…

I'm getting really afraid of these authoritarian opportunists. Seems much more likely to have an impact on my life than terrorist attacks at least...
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