The Violent Afterlife of a Recycled Plastic Bottle • Hacker News Board

Re: The Violent Afterlife of a Recycled Plastic Bottle

#31

Post by knughit » Sun, Dec 06, 2015, 9:27 PM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #22

jfoster wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also says: > “Unfortunately the bags themselves can’t be recycled—they are too dirty, so they will end up in a landfill.” This holds true for all plastic items that haven’t been cleaned properly—hence, the leaflets calling for us to “rinse our recyclables.” The cleaner a plastic bottle is, the more likely it will be marked for reincarnation as something new. That bit happens before the washing, so I think the advi…

Unfortunately the bags themselves can’t be recycled—they are too dirty, so they will end up in a landfill I think at some time in the future they should also be excavated and reprocessed, because plastic is a petroleum product and the natural sources are known to be very finite. There is plenty of plastic in landfills that we just don't know how to effectively reprocess, or we would. That's also why I think the biode…

Biodegradable products come from sources like trees and corn. This stuff literally grows on trees. Much easier to grow than dinosuars.

Re: The Violent Afterlife of a Recycled Plastic Bottle

#32

Post by classicsnoot » Sun, Dec 06, 2015, 9:28 PM UTC

ck2 wrote: post #11

So dumb question but when they recycle plastics into water/soda containers - how do they know it is food-safe plastic making it back into the chain and not contain molecules that will "bleed" into the beverage/food?

Read the article. It addresses that.

Re: The Violent Afterlife of a Recycled Plastic Bottle

#33

Post by knughit » Sun, Dec 06, 2015, 9:29 PM UTC

vpribish wrote: post #27

userbinator wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the bags themselves can’t be recycled—they are too dirty, so they will end up in a landfill I think at some time in the future they should also be excavated and reprocessed, because plastic is a petroleum product and the natural sources are known to be very finite. There is plenty of plastic in landfills that we just don't know how to effectively reprocess, or we would. That's also why I think the biode…

TL:DR - we will never run out of raw materials for plastics The resources used for plastic are so vastly plentiful that considering them unlimited is a good approximation -- they may get more expensive but the market will sort that out. A lot of smart, well-meaning people get derailed by belief in imminent scarcity - and waste their time that could be spent on real opportunities. * only a couple of percent of petrole…

You are forgetting exponential population growth and developing nations. "It just costs more" meand it won't run out, but not won't be usable everywhere desired either.

The reason not to care about using it up is that tragedy of commons means we can't stop from being used up.

Re: The Violent Afterlife of a Recycled Plastic Bottle

#34

Post by classicsnoot » Sun, Dec 06, 2015, 9:39 PM UTC

cdnsteve wrote: post #3

The cycle of modern consumerism and corporations is disgusting. I laugh to myself when I think North America looks down on third world countries. In many cases, it's the exact opposite. I'm a spoke in the wheel like most, however this article makes me want to change. Recycling isn't the answer, it's part of the problem. We're all wearing, eating from and washing in, plastic. Plastic or PET comes from crude oil . No h…

I have a friend whose mother saved every plastic thing she came into contact with. She was born and raised in the Philippines. He said it took a lot of deprogramming to get her to put the perfectly useful containers in the recycle bin.

When I was in Central America, the place i stayed at used plastic cups, plates, forks, and knives. All PET, all reused to hell and back. I miss that place very much, so I keep some plastic kitchenware about for nostalgia's sake. If ever people come over to eat, they avoid using them.

I get it that the plastic bottle is the best meme for waste, poorly planned production, and/or the callous indifference of advanced societies. But I pick up a lot of litter in my everyday, and every time I toss a bottle in the bin, I feel like I am throwing away one of humankind's greatest inventions. Tiny nurdles melted and stretched into useful shales that could last for generations! Feather light; strong and flexible. What an amazing thing to just throw on the ground while you head off to be a cog in some clunky corporate machine built in the image of steam technology.

Hate on the bottle if you must; I'm just going to use the little guys for whatever they are useful for.

Edit: grammar

Re: The Violent Afterlife of a Recycled Plastic Bottle

#35

Post by vpribish » Sun, Dec 06, 2015, 9:51 PM UTC

knughit wrote: post #33

vpribish wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TL:DR - we will never run out of raw materials for plastics The resources used for plastic are so vastly plentiful that considering them unlimited is a good approximation -- they may get more expensive but the market will sort that out. A lot of smart, well-meaning people get derailed by belief in imminent scarcity - and waste their time that could be spent on real opportunities. * only a couple of percent of petrole…

You are forgetting exponential population growth and developing nations. "It just costs more" meand it won't run out, but not won't be usable everywhere desired either. The reason not to care about using it up is that tragedy of commons means we can't stop from being used up.

not at all - and exponential growth is a more nuanced term than you may realize. UN population growth projection for the next 100 years shows (95% conf) at most a doubling of population. development of nations has roared ahead since the industrial revolution, and petroleum reserve development has easily kept pace. I really am saying that time spent worrying about running out of oil -- ESPECIALLY running out for the purposes of plastics production is a complete waste of your time and a distraction from actually important things. Come to think of it, worrying about over-population is also a curious preoccupation of rich, privileged, people like ourselves.

Malthus was wrong.

That there is a commons does not mean there is a tragedy.

Re: The Violent Afterlife of a Recycled Plastic Bottle

#36

Post by justifier » Sun, Dec 06, 2015, 10:06 PM UTC

WJW wrote: post #24

justifier wrote: post #23

i'm fanning an interest in getting involved in moving legislature making plastic bottling illegal anyone have any early objections i could work on developing responses to?

The alternative that most people will think of first are glass bottles, which are significantly heavier. Transport of bottled liquids is already weight-bound, so if you make the packaging heavier you'd need more trucks to transport the same amount of bottles.

i'm going to ignore the financial costs until a direction has been settled so your point would be an optimisation problem in regard to environmental effect

ie. what's less damaging? pacific garbage patch or truck diesel emissions?

if i had to dream up a bottling system now my interest would be in resource renewal.. mainly biodegradable substances

perhaps a waxed paper? i'm unsure what the weight costs would be on paper versus plastic, and i'd also want to investigate environmental effects of cans

Re: The Violent Afterlife of a Recycled Plastic Bottle

#37

Post by ZenoArrow » Sun, Dec 06, 2015, 10:21 PM UTC

cdnsteve wrote: post #3

The cycle of modern consumerism and corporations is disgusting. I laugh to myself when I think North America looks down on third world countries. In many cases, it's the exact opposite. I'm a spoke in the wheel like most, however this article makes me want to change. Recycling isn't the answer, it's part of the problem. We're all wearing, eating from and washing in, plastic. Plastic or PET comes from crude oil . No h…

> "The cycle of modern consumerism and corporations is disgusting. I laugh to myself when I think North America looks down on third world countries. In many cases, it's the exact opposite. I'm a spoke in the wheel like most, however this article makes me want to change."

If you want to know the answer to this issue, it can be found by learning the 'waste equals food' approach found in nature. I can recommend this talk by William McDonough as an introduction to how this can be applied to man made items:

https://www.ted.com/talks/william_mcdonough_on_cradle_to_cra...

Re: The Violent Afterlife of a Recycled Plastic Bottle

#38

Post by kaudrius » Sun, Dec 06, 2015, 10:30 PM UTC

What about mbapolymers.com ? They seem to be able to recycle efficiently any sort of plastic. Why there are other recycling processes still in use ?

Re: The Violent Afterlife of a Recycled Plastic Bottle

#39

Post by justifier » Sun, Dec 06, 2015, 10:32 PM UTC

classicsnoot wrote: post #30

justifier wrote: post #23

i'm fanning an interest in getting involved in moving legislature making plastic bottling illegal anyone have any early objections i could work on developing responses to?

Not so much an objection, but more of a line of inquiry on tactics. Why try to make something illegal? Why not make something legal? Like instead of 'No Plastic', bonus for Plastic01 and 02. Plastic, like guns and cars and markets, are inherently useful. It is the production, use, and misuse that is the problem. On a legislative level, I feel it is a mistake to always use the limitation of action as an agent for chan…

as much as i like your sentiment: motivators stead limitators; we're talking about a mature industry causing a great deal of harm already yesterday and somehow managing to offload responsibility, using lobbying, onto the consumer

subsidising a shift in production interests is a great idea, and i do think a robust alternative will be necessary in pushing forth any able limiting legislation

i am uninterested in profiting financially from this effort

my interest is in having there be a sane approach to resource utilisation

Re: The Violent Afterlife of a Recycled Plastic Bottle

#40

Post by vpribish » Sun, Dec 06, 2015, 10:46 PM UTC

cb18 wrote: post #14

Regardless of one's feelings about 'climate change,' it really behooves us to stop doing a variety of things in a way that are hugely destructive to the planet and ourselves. That would be good policy no matter what, but the fact that so often our hugely destructive actions are in the service of deriving relatively minimal value makes it patently absurd. So it was quite striking that in the few images I saw from the…

yup. as long as we and our representatives care more about symbolism and posturing than about unpalatable reality