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Spanish galleon may contain biggest treasure haul ever found on seabed

theguardian.com

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Re: Spanish galleon may contain biggest treasure haul ever found on seabed

#21

Post by andrepd »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #16
jorgon wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is Spanish cultural patrimony in the same way Rosseta Stone is British patrimony. Legally it is owned by Spain.

I'm British and I don't believe the Rosetta Stone belongs to Britain. However, that's probably a minority view, many people here in Britain are still brainwashed about the glory of empire and all the good it did for the world.

The same could be said about every historical artifact not in display in its native nation. Should we repatriate all artifacts and pieces of art to its original nation?

Re: Spanish galleon may contain biggest treasure haul ever found on seabed

#22

Post by JoeAltmaier »

akavel wrote: post #13
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #2

Huh. How can gold, silver and emeralds taken from South America, be “national cultural patrimony” of Spain? Aren't they a treasure of the South American natives they were taken from?

The text of the article currently seems to talk about Colombia 's “national cultural patrimony” -- I couldn't find much about Spain; was it edited? was the earlier text quoting Spain?

Thanks, I stand corrected. New policy: I should read twice, then say nothing. I'll sound much smarter.

Re: Spanish galleon may contain biggest treasure haul ever found on seabed

#23

Post by rockyleal »

mahouse wrote: post #7
Htsthbjig wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is not Spain. It is from Colombia. Are you from North America? Canada or US? Because following the same rules you state the land in which you live is not yours, but from the native Indians you exterminated before. Or in a more recent example, ISIS would be the rightfully owners of the modern day gold, oil, that is under their territory the US wants to steal from them.

I wonder what would be of current Colombia without the Spanish people that conquered it.

Me too. It would be cleaner, unpolluted, less bloody, and the native cultures would probably be blossoming and making interesting stuff by combining their knowledge with outside influences. Too bad most of them were exterminated and dispossessed (the galleon being just one instance of that dispossession), and too bad they continue to be institutionally and structurally marginalised, decimated, and dispossessed.

Re: Spanish galleon may contain biggest treasure haul ever found on seabed

#24

Post by rockyleal »

jorgon wrote: post #5
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #2

Huh. How can gold, silver and emeralds taken from South America, be “national cultural patrimony” of Spain? Aren't they a treasure of the South American natives they were taken from?

It is Spanish cultural patrimony in the same way Rosseta Stone is British patrimony. Legally it is owned by Spain.

Legally? Going by whose laws? The legitimate owners of all that wealth are the indigenous inhabitants of the territory it was extracted from by invaders. According to indigenous law, it is definitively NOT legally owned by Spain.

Re: Spanish galleon may contain biggest treasure haul ever found on seabed

#25

Post by maxerickson »

RobertoG wrote: post #9
jorgon wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is Spanish cultural patrimony in the same way Rosseta Stone is British patrimony. Legally it is owned by Spain.

I doubt that, legally, a shipwreck of colonial times in Colombian waters is owned by Spain. And I would like to think that most of the Spaniards agree with that.

I guess the details aren't the same, but Spain has asserted legal rights over shipwrecks in the past:

http://www.tulanemaritimejournal.org/finders-weepers-losers-...

Re: Spanish galleon may contain biggest treasure haul ever found on seabed

#26

Post by cba9 »

Patronus_Charm wrote: post #20

It seems so odd that it takes so long to find these sunken vessels with so much tech at our disposal?? I reckon one good robbery deserves another.

I wondered that too but then they cover how it's been embroiled in a legal battle for 30 years now. So apparently its location more or less was discovered a long time ago, it's only now that the legal battle has ended that more detailed investigation can take place.

Re: Spanish galleon may contain biggest treasure haul ever found on seabed

#27

Post by joeyspn »

rockyleal wrote: post #19
joeyspn wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, technically Colombia was then part of the Spanish Empire, and that galleon belongs to the Spanish Crown. I personally don't mind but knowing how low gold is in the spanish central bank, probably the spanish gov will make some kind of move to get back its "historical heritage"...

Empire which was revoked due to being an illegitimate and genocidal regime. Your argument suggests they should be allowed to re-steal now what they would have stolen back then.

No, I'm not saying that they should be allowed to re-steal. I said that I don't care about a shipwreck, but the spanish government has been known to claim this kind of finds in the past because technically that is a Spanish ship and legal precedents exist.

Also, all the global empires have been built on the same coercive foundation, and that doesn't make them "regimes".

Re: Spanish galleon may contain biggest treasure haul ever found on seabed

#28

Post by ZenoArrow »

andrepd wrote: post #21
ZenoArrow wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm British and I don't believe the Rosetta Stone belongs to Britain. However, that's probably a minority view, many people here in Britain are still brainwashed about the glory of empire and all the good it did for the world.

The same could be said about every historical artifact not in display in its native nation. Should we repatriate all artifacts and pieces of art to its original nation?

In an ideal world, yes, for historical artifacts.

However, I realise there's not much demand for such a move, so it's not going to happen any time soon, if at all.

Re: Spanish galleon may contain biggest treasure haul ever found on seabed

#29

Post by jorgon »

rockyleal wrote: post #19
joeyspn wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, technically Colombia was then part of the Spanish Empire, and that galleon belongs to the Spanish Crown. I personally don't mind but knowing how low gold is in the spanish central bank, probably the spanish gov will make some kind of move to get back its "historical heritage"...

Empire which was revoked due to being an illegitimate and genocidal regime. Your argument suggests they should be allowed to re-steal now what they would have stolen back then.

Some American talking about genocide... That's really a joke!

Re: Spanish galleon may contain biggest treasure haul ever found on seabed

#30

Post by jorgon »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #28
andrepd wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same could be said about every historical artifact not in display in its native nation. Should we repatriate all artifacts and pieces of art to its original nation?

In an ideal world, yes, for historical artifacts. However, I realise there's not much demand for such a move, so it's not going to happen any time soon, if at all.

There's no demand for moving Parthenon Sculptures?
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