> A court should not uphold a highly problematic interpretation of a statute merely because the Government promises to use it responsibly. This. Whether a law is just needs to be considered in light of its worst-case abuse potential, not just on the basis of how it is currently being applied. It is a great advantage of the common law system that over-broad, ill-specified or otherwise broken laws can be remedied throu…
Could you extrapolate from that though that: 1. Since the first amendment allows the free exercise of religion, prayer must be allowed in schools as long as no specific religion is established via those prayers? 2. Since the second amendment allows the right to keep and bear arms, without further amendment, that right should be unrestricted by any registration process considered onerous or restrictive?
Court: Breaking Your Employer's Computer Policy Isn't a Crime
91–100 of 125 posts
Re: Court: Breaking Your Employer's Computer Policy Isn't a Crime
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is absolutely no point in debating the past or the original text of the Second Amendment. Post-Heller, post-McDonald, it's moot. The Court's word is Constitution. If the anti-gun (really, pro-authoritarian-state) minority wants to ban firearms: they should lobby for a Constitutional amendment (which will undoubtedly fail), and then lobby for each individual state to ban arms - keeping in mind, some states have…
Sandy Hook, Colorado (3 times in recent memory), Lafayette, San Bernardino, et cetera, et fucking cetera. Every time one of these shootings happens RKBA repeal gets dragged closer to the Overton window. The only question is how much more human blood must be shed.
In the same amount of time, there have been about 158 fatalities due to being struck by lightning.[2]
In 2013 alone, there were 611,105 fatalities due to heart disease and 56,979 due to influenze and pneumonia.[3] The stats are a bit out of date, but from 2005-2009, ~3,500 people drowned each year.[4]
If you're worried about yourself or a loved one dying, don't worry about dying in a mass shooting. It's about as likely as being struck by lightning.
[1]:http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-m... [2]: http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/fatalities.shtml [3]: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm [4]: http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/wa...
Re: Court: Breaking Your Employer's Computer Policy Isn't a Crime
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is the NRA that has twisted the Second Amendment to say what they want. [0] [1] Let me quote from [0]: The [NRA under its new leadership] pushed for a novel interpretation of the Second Amendment, one that gave individuals, not just militias, the right to bear arms. It was an uphill struggle. At first, their views were widely scorned. Chief Justice Warren E. Burger, who was no liberal, mocked the individual-rights…
There is absolutely no point in debating the past or the original text of the Second Amendment. Post-Heller, post-McDonald, it's moot. The Court's word is Constitution. If the anti-gun (really, pro-authoritarian-state) minority wants to ban firearms: they should lobby for a Constitutional amendment (which will undoubtedly fail), and then lobby for each individual state to ban arms - keeping in mind, some states have…
Re: Court: Breaking Your Employer's Computer Policy Isn't a Crime
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Trained and led in such a manner to constitute an effective fighting force. Note that the "right of the people to keep and bear arms" is a precondition, according to the 2A, for a "well-regulated militia", not vice versa. If you want to repeal the 2A, repeal the fucker, don't try to sneak repeal under the wire with a license to twist the grammar of the law till it says what you want. That just opens the door for the…
>Note that the "right of the people to keep and bear arms" is a precondition, according to the 2A, for a "well-regulated militia" Arms are indeed a precondition for a militia, but it seems to me the 2A only exists because the need for a militia was perceived at the time. I'm not so sure that's the case today. In any event, you make a very good point about the danger of 'creative' interpretations.
Re: Court: Breaking Your Employer's Computer Policy Isn't a Crime
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Trained and led in such a manner to constitute an effective fighting force. Note that the "right of the people to keep and bear arms" is a precondition, according to the 2A, for a "well-regulated militia", not vice versa. If you want to repeal the 2A, repeal the fucker, don't try to sneak repeal under the wire with a license to twist the grammar of the law till it says what you want. That just opens the door for the…
>Note that the "right of the people to keep and bear arms" is a precondition, according to the 2A, for a "well-regulated militia" Arms are indeed a precondition for a militia, but it seems to me the 2A only exists because the need for a militia was perceived at the time. I'm not so sure that's the case today. In any event, you make a very good point about the danger of 'creative' interpretations.
> The Second Amendment is naturally divided into two parts: its prefatory clause and its operative clause. The former does not limit the latter grammatically, but rather announces a purpose. The Amendment could be rephrased, “Because a well regulated Militia is necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.”
> Although this structure of the Second Amendment is unique in our Constitution, other legal documents of the founding era, particularly individual-rights provisions of state constitutions, commonly included a prefatory statement of purpose. [...] [A]part from [its] clarifying function, a prefatory clause does not limit or expand the scope of the operative clause.
The court also examined the meaning of the word "militia". The word had a different meaning at the time than it does today. The militia did not refer to a specific military force, like the National Guard today. Rather, it referred to a section of the populace:
> As we will describe below, the “militia” in colonial America consisted of a subset of “the people”—those who were male, able bodied, and within a certain age range. Reading the Second Amendment as protecting only the right to “keep and bear Arms” in an organized militia therefore fits poorly with the operative clause’s description of the holder of that right as “the people.”
> We start therefore with a strong presumption that the Second Amendment right is exercised individually and belongs to all Americans.
Re: Court: Breaking Your Employer's Computer Policy Isn't a Crime
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, sure, anything is debatable if you take the Humpty Dumpty stance. But if English words mean things the language in the Constitution will hamper gun control efforts in the USA. These articles are examples of what I call "sneaking repeal under the wire". Just because an article comes from a scholarly source doesn't mean it stands up to scrutiny: Michael Bellesiles landed himself in hot water attempting to argue t…
I will admit that I have mixed feelings about the Second Amendment. As does the Supreme Court; Heller was a 5-4 decision, in which the minority disagreed with the interpretation of the text that you claim is plain and indisputable. Furthermore, "Four times between 1876 and 1939, the U.S. Supreme Court declined to rule that the Second Amendment protected individual gun ownership outside the context of a militia." [0]…
Citizens have proven very capable of defending themselves in Iraq, Ukraine, Syria.
It's true that a government willing to firebomb entire cities and murder literally everyone could overcome that resistance. However, in the modern era a government that did that would quickly see the entire world turning against them.
It's also worth keeping in mind that even large, powerful, and well-armed militaries are only a fraction of the populace. In the US, something like 1/100 people are in the military. So if the US military turned against the population, and the population resisted, they'd have to fight a force that's potentially 100 times their number. Unless they were willing to firebomb their own cities and murder innocent civilians (as opposed to guerrilla fighters), they'd quickly be overcome.
Re: Court: Breaking Your Employer's Computer Policy Isn't a Crime
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
The militia is well-regulated; the right to bear arms is unrestricted.
Fair point about the separate clauses-- but what's the intent of the "well-regulated" part, then?
> [We] explained that “the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense.” That definition comports with founding-era sources. [...]
> Finally, the adjective “well-regulated” implies nothing more than the imposition of proper discipline and training. [...]
> There are many reasons why the militia was thought to be “necessary to the security of a free state. [...] When the able-bodied men of a nation are trained in arms and organized, they are better able to resist tyranny.
Re: Court: Breaking Your Employer's Computer Policy Isn't a Crime
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
Trained and led in such a manner to constitute an effective fighting force. Note that the "right of the people to keep and bear arms" is a precondition, according to the 2A, for a "well-regulated militia", not vice versa. If you want to repeal the 2A, repeal the fucker, don't try to sneak repeal under the wire with a license to twist the grammar of the law till it says what you want. That just opens the door for the…
It is the NRA that has twisted the Second Amendment to say what they want. [0] [1] Let me quote from [0]: The [NRA under its new leadership] pushed for a novel interpretation of the Second Amendment, one that gave individuals, not just militias, the right to bear arms. It was an uphill struggle. At first, their views were widely scorned. Chief Justice Warren E. Burger, who was no liberal, mocked the individual-rights…
It explains the meaning of the words and phrases, and their intention, and provides ample justification in the way of founding-era sources.
> There are many reasons why the militia was thought to be “necessary to the security of a free state.” [...] When the able-bodied men of a nation are trained in arms and organized, they are better able to resist tyranny. [...]
> That of the nine state constitutional protections for the right to bear arms enacted immediately after 1789 at least seven unequivocally protected an individual citizen’s right to self-defense is strong evidence that that is how the founding generation conceived of the right.
Re: Court: Breaking Your Employer's Computer Policy Isn't a Crime
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
To say that the country needed well managed militias to protect the country. Remember, the first several battles of the revolution were local Massachusetts militias defending their local weapons caches and supplies.
I see how that was critical to the nation at the time, but then how is that amendment relevant in the modern world? Standing armed forces protect our national integrity, and state/county/municipal agencies maintain local order. Aren't local militias effectively obsolete?
An armed populace was viewed as crucial during the founding of the US because when able-bodied men of a nation are trained in arms and organized, they are better able to resist tyranny. The modern era demonstrates that this is still relevant: see Iraq, Ukraine, Syria, etc. There's a great documentary on Netflix that shows, from footage on the ground, what transpired while the Ukraine crisis unfolded. Ukraine's local self-defense forces gave the protesters a foothold that eventually took down the unjust government (at least, that's the narrative - I'm only remarking on their effectiveness as a fighting force, and their relevance to political change).
Re: Court: Breaking Your Employer's Computer Policy Isn't a Crime
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except guns are specifically mentioned in the Constitution, and were pretty important in breaking away from tyranny and forming a new country. Cars, not so much.
I'd like to see you win armed insurrection today without cars. Also, The 2nd Amendment refers to a state government sponsored and maintained military force. The idea there is an individual right, is a novel invention in the last 30 years. In fact, it was never recognized until all-to-predictable 5-4 decision in 2010[1]. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06... edit: spelling
You are wrong about this.
Please read District of Columbia v. Heller in full (2008). It reviews the history, with ample explanation of the meaning, phrasing, and expectations elucidated through founding-era sources. Please see section D, which has an extensive discussion of how this right was discussed in the 19th century. Upon reviewing the evidence, the court concludes:
> It was plainly the understanding in the post-Civil War Congress that the Second Amendment protected an individual right to use arms for self-defense.
There is significant evidence in the way of commentary, court opinions, legislation, etc. justifying that the right was understood as an individual right throughout this time:
> In Nunn v. State, 1Ga. 243, 251 (1846), the Georgia Supreme Court construed the Second Amendment as protecting the “natural right of self-defence” and therefore struck down a ban on carrying pistols openly. Its opinion perfectly captured the way in which the operative clause of the Second Amendment furthers the purpose announced in the prefatory clause, in continuity with the English right:
> “The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, and not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree; and all this for the important end to be attained: the rearing up and qualifying a well-regulated militia, so vitally necessary to the security of a free State. Our opinion is, that any law which contravenes this right, State or Federal, is repugnant to the Constitution, and void [...]”
> Likewise, in State v. Chandler, 5La. Ann. 489, 490 (1850), the Louisiana Supreme Court held that citizens had a right to carry arms openly: “This is the right guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States [...].”
Lastly, you misconstrue the nature of the 5-4 decision. Two years earlier, in 2008, the same justices as who you are referring to also dissented in Columbia v. Heller, and wrote:
> #1. Justice Stevens, with whom Justice Souter, Justice Ginsburg, and Justice Breyer join, dissenting. The question presented by this case is not whether the Second Amendment protects a “collective right” or an “individual right.” Surely it protects a right that can be enforced by individuals.
> #2. Justice Breyer, with whom Justice Stevens, Justice Souter, and Justice Ginsburg join, dissenting. I take as a starting point the following four propositions, based on our precedent and today’s opinions, to which I believe the entire Court subscribes: (1) The Amendment protects an “individual” right—i.e., one that is separately possessed, and may be separately enforced, by each person on whom it is conferred. [...] I shall, as I said, assume with the majority that the Amendment, in addition to furthering a militia-related purpose, also furthers an interest in possessing guns for purposes of self-defense, at least to some degree.
Even the dissenting votes agree that the right to bear arms individually for self-defense is a right protected by the Second Amendment, at least to some degree. Their dissenting votes are based on a disagreement about the scope of that protection, and how it interacts with competing interests in those cases. The dissent involves questions like whether the Second Amendment is incorporated by the due process clause.