Live data from Hacker News

Open source software for developing world hospitals

hospitalrun.io

111–119 of 119 posts

Re: Open source software for developing world hospitals

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually this has been transferred into the ISO 80xxx sections. Specifically 80001 and following.

possibly this has changed recently but I don't think medical records software is subject to the same standards as medical device software (in Europe, at least). It's important to remember that EMRs are there to support healthcare professionals who are used to working with incomplete / incorrect information all the time. For example, a patient isn't going to have a drug dispensed to them without a pharmacist checking…

> possibly this has changed recently but I don't think medical records software is subject to the same standards as medical device software (in Europe, at least).

That is indeed the case (medical record software not being classified as a medical device software product in Europe). However medical record software has been added to also be covered some ISO 80xxx standard. However in the USA medical record software is considered a class B or even class C medical product by the FDA, depending on if the software is used just for record keeping or actively used for therapy planning.

Re: Open source software for developing world hospitals

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

possibly this has changed recently but I don't think medical records software is subject to the same standards as medical device software (in Europe, at least). It's important to remember that EMRs are there to support healthcare professionals who are used to working with incomplete / incorrect information all the time. For example, a patient isn't going to have a drug dispensed to them without a pharmacist checking…

> possibly this has changed recently but I don't think medical records software is subject to the same standards as medical device software (in Europe, at least). That is indeed the case (medical record software not being classified as a medical device software product in Europe). However medical record software has been added to also be covered some ISO 80xxx standard. However in the USA medical record software is c…

So a) Class A, B, C in this context means safety class(=IEC62304?) b) I was under the impression that EHR is not FDA regulated in US? (There was been lots of discussion about this though)

Re: Open source software for developing world hospitals

#113
I worked in this space for a very long time. Here are my thoughts on health data integration [0]. In a nutshell:

"At it's core the government need only do one thing to encourage innovation in the interoperability space and it is this:

The government, by means of regulation and incentive, ensure that any vendor of data systems that create or store data make adequate interoperability features and documentation available for said system.

I call this the Core Mandate. The core mandate must be unequivocal with no loopholes. What do I mean by "interoperability features"? Simply:

- If a system creates data, the ability to read that data is fully described in documentation.

- If a system stores data, the vendor will provide an API and/or SDK, with accompanying documentation, such that authenticated requests may create, read, update or delete that data programmatically as appropriate.

A system is defined as any software application or hardware device."

[0] http://siculars.posthaven.com/health-data-integration-regula...

Re: Open source software for developing world hospitals

#114

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_health_sof... Please avoid too much diversification by reinventing wheels, instead please contribute to one of these projects. Mobile first is a basic requirement in developing countries.

>Mobile first is a basic requirement in developing countries. When you say "mobile first is a basic requirement" you're thinking about a specific context of software intended for the general population of people in those countries. However, with projects like HospitalRun, the general population is not the audience, Hospital staff and administrators are, and even in developing countries they still primarily use laptop…

Agreed. For them, offline-first is very likely to be more important.

Re: Open source software for developing world hospitals

#115

That reminded me about story my friend told me some time ago. He's IT specialist in hospital, they were having some problems with x-ray machine with server based on windows XP and thin clients as viewing stations. Eventually it was replaced with debian based workstations and haven't look back ever since. After this he told me about interesting case with it, there was patient complaining about middle foot pains, on pr…

Stuff like this shows the gulf between research and clinical practice. I'm doing a PhD in medical imaging, and we have carte blanche to run whatever we want. We generate a lot of amazing visualisations. But almost all hospitals are stuck running out-of-date software that wasn't even good when it was released.

How does a healthcare system or private clinic acquire such software? What is the solution? Are the bottlenecks monetary, political, access?

Re: Open source software for developing world hospitals

#116
post #47

Looks great. Why such emphasis on "Ember"? Does the target audience really care what front-end framework is used?

Not listing and/or not emphasizing the core component of your product can lead to confusion and (possibly intentional) misrepresentation.

I've seen situations in real life where someone will say "hey this tool is cool, how did they make it?" and another person "oh they used framework X, I think." A good chunk of people will then do their due diligence and discover that it was Framework Y not Framework X... but not everyone.

There are some people still to this day, for example, who believe that AngularJS powers Youtube's desktop site.

Re: Open source software for developing world hospitals

#117
First off, I would like to say this is exactly the kind of thing that has the potential to have a monumental impact on global healthcare, not just in the developing world. We could definitely do with this type of initiative in the UK.

The reality is that some of the biggest vendors (US and UK based) actually ship some of the worst software and charge hundreds of millions of pounds for it. Ultimately, its the patients that pay the price. It's a complete myth that bigger vendors build safer systems.

I agree with a previous poster in that given more visibility, I'm sure there are thousands of developers that would love to contribute to this type of project (myself included).

It's also pretty clear that mobile will be a key requirement for this type of solution. Not just a responsive website but full native implementations. I realise that this can be expensive, but if it's open source, I'm sure there are developers that would love to get involved. Maybe you would consider an API? This might encourage an ecosystem of client solutions to flourish.

Finally, do you think there is a role for a patient login here? There is a world-wide movement to encourage patients to play a more active role in managing their healthcare and giving patients mobile access to their health records is a great first step towards this.

Re: Open source software for developing world hospitals

#118
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> possibly this has changed recently but I don't think medical records software is subject to the same standards as medical device software (in Europe, at least). That is indeed the case (medical record software not being classified as a medical device software product in Europe). However medical record software has been added to also be covered some ISO 80xxx standard. However in the USA medical record software is c…

So a) Class A, B, C in this context means safety class(=IEC62304?) b) I was under the impression that EHR is not FDA regulated in US? (There was been lots of discussion about this though)

I'd have to look into my most recent seminar materials (we did only tangent on medical record software since this was focused on diagnostics and treatment devices) but as far as I recall, there was a slide that EHR software falls under FDA regulation; in contrast to EU law. Let me have a look at it tomorrow, when I'm in the office, where I placed the seminar stuff.

Re: Open source software for developing world hospitals

#119
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stuff like this shows the gulf between research and clinical practice. I'm doing a PhD in medical imaging, and we have carte blanche to run whatever we want. We generate a lot of amazing visualisations. But almost all hospitals are stuck running out-of-date software that wasn't even good when it was released.

How does a healthcare system or private clinic acquire such software? What is the solution? Are the bottlenecks monetary, political, access?

Good questions, and I don't claim to fully know the answers.

Some such software is released open-source, e.g. NifTK, FSL, MedINRIA. Some is spun out and then sold through vendors as a service, e.g. Siemens, icoMetrix, many others.

Why aren't things used more? I'd say the main bottlenecks are monetary, political and cultural. Doctors are often set in their ways, and hospital management staff are risk-averse. Moreover, because of legal liability issues, a lot of this stuff has not been formally approved for clinical use -- so hospitals won't touch it. This is especially true of the open-source software. Getting approved is an expensive and time-consuming process. Service contracts with approved software are expensive, mostly as a result of this.

Heck, look at the struggle involved in digital patient records, which is supposedly a simpler problem than imaging. In the UK, we've spent billions on that without getting anything usable. There are uniquely bad political reasons for that, but it's illustrative nonetheless.

Post reply on HN