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Arrest of Senior Adviser to the Operator of the “Silk Road” Website

justice.gov

11–20 of 34 posts

Re: Arrest of Senior Adviser to the Operator of the “Silk Road” Website

#11
post #3

It seems an independent researcher who goes by the name "La Moustache" on Twitter managed to correctly ID Variety Jones. > The research conducted by an independent researcher by the name of “La Moustache” determined that Variety Jones is likely Roger or Thomas Clark. > [...] The posts, some containing as much as 3,000 words, explain how “Plural of Mongoose” was arrested after being found running an underground cannab…

Wow the complaint has some bombshells:

In particular I'd highlight this as pretty crazy: (screenshot from scribd because I don't have a plaintext copy) http://imgur.com/kaFSSzl

One of the Customer Support Staff Members on the Silk Road was a homeland security investigator. Wow.

Re: Arrest of Senior Adviser to the Operator of the “Silk Road” Website

#12
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting aside personal bias: Kudos for admitting that. It takes a lot of courage to put your beliefs out in the open, or even to talk about the beliefs of a group you once identified with. I feel that most of us would've supported violence against those cooperating with law enforcement. Could you help me understand that mindset? It seems like violence is one reason we as a species took hundreds of thousands of years…

I can try to give a reply. You have to remember what SR was for. These were people who were not only using SR, but active in the community as well. They were mostly engaged in illegal activities, a good deal of whom were active offline as well taking part in illegal activities. Law enforcement is a constant point of anxiety for every single person involved in this process. If someone who you thought you could trust i…

(Trying to figure out how to reply without sounding like I'm challenging an idea or putting someone on the defensive... All I can think of is: Thank you for the reply. Know that I respect everyone's viewpoint, and that we're only trying to chase a mystery.)

If someone who you thought you could trust is now actively threatening your freedom (or access to a substance, which is also a form of freedom), you take action to prevent this.

So I've spent five minutes mentally putting myself in that situation, and... I don't know. Am I just a coward? It's important in the abstract sense to fight for freedoms, and perhaps in the literal sense when one system (i.e. country) is at war with another.

But the idea of taking a bat to someone's head for betraying my trust in them is... Well, that's really the question to explore, right? How could someone actually do that, let alone approve of someone else doing that? The question is far too pointed, though. Just trying to understand.

Re: Arrest of Senior Adviser to the Operator of the “Silk Road” Website

#13
post #2

Finally, CLARK also advised Ulbricht on tactics to thwart efforts by law enforcement to investigate Silk Road. In that vein, CLARK repeatedly advocated the use of intimidation and violence to keep members of the Silk Road support staff from cooperating with law enforcement. In one such conversation, in which CLARK and Ulbricht discussed “track[ing] down” a certain Silk Road employee to ensure that he had not gone “[o…

I know HN user gwern did some work partially documenting the forums. It was an interesting place to be, especially towards the beginning. I feel that most of us would've supported violence against those cooperating with law enforcement.

I am reminded of the quote ""Give me liberty, or give me death!" - Patrick Henry

Re: Arrest of Senior Adviser to the Operator of the “Silk Road” Website

#14
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can try to give a reply. You have to remember what SR was for. These were people who were not only using SR, but active in the community as well. They were mostly engaged in illegal activities, a good deal of whom were active offline as well taking part in illegal activities. Law enforcement is a constant point of anxiety for every single person involved in this process. If someone who you thought you could trust i…

(Trying to figure out how to reply without sounding like I'm challenging an idea or putting someone on the defensive... All I can think of is: Thank you for the reply. Know that I respect everyone's viewpoint, and that we're only trying to chase a mystery.) If someone who you thought you could trust is now actively threatening your freedom (or access to a substance, which is also a form of freedom), you take action t…

Well, I don't want to give you the wrong idea. I'm not an authority here. (I'd be a little dumb commenting with this account if I were.) My activity was very minimal, to the point where I doubt law enforcement would find it worth their while even if they knew who I was and the extent of my "involvement". I'm replying because those more involved might not want to share their (more informed) experiences for obvious reasons.

In my experience, at the lower levels I think the vast majority of the community wouldn't have actually done anything. You don't have to do anything to sit behind a keyboard and "support" the idea of an informant getting knocked off or roughed up. How could they justify supporting that kind of violence? In my opinion, the place had kind of a revolutionary appeal. Like the darkmarkets were going to change everything. How could the system maintain these dangerous and harmful laws if we are here, operating in plain sight? I'm sure that would only be bolstered by the extreme convenience and safety the whole thing provided. Nobody really wanted to go back to the old way of buying and selling, for a lot of them online had been their only actual experiences in this area.

Further up the chain, some of those guys had serious amounts of money involved. Some had people under (or worse, over) who depended on access to this site. There was tremendous financial stake involved.

Further, I remember a lot of people felt that there were people in the community who would actually follow through with this sort of thing had there been enough actionable intelligence. I'd be surprised if there weren't. Or they could just hire a hitman. It seemed like a doable thing to have some big-deal drug dealer or one of his guys do something like this. This is literally just speculation though, as there was no public discussion that I ever saw involving anything resembling this. I'm pretty sure at least some of the people would have objected on the grounds that it might draw even more LE attention to the place.

I remember reading some discussion going on about one of the darknet sites that shut down and stole everyones money. A lot of people wanted the stolen coins tracked down so they could go after them and serve them justice. Some people thought it would actually happen. Others thought even if they were found, nobody would do anything. Who really knows.

Re: Arrest of Senior Adviser to the Operator of the “Silk Road” Website

#16
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting aside personal bias: Kudos for admitting that. It takes a lot of courage to put your beliefs out in the open, or even to talk about the beliefs of a group you once identified with. I feel that most of us would've supported violence against those cooperating with law enforcement. Could you help me understand that mindset? It seems like violence is one reason we as a species took hundreds of thousands of years…

I can try to give a reply. You have to remember what SR was for. These were people who were not only using SR, but active in the community as well. They were mostly engaged in illegal activities, a good deal of whom were active offline as well taking part in illegal activities. Law enforcement is a constant point of anxiety for every single person involved in this process. If someone who you thought you could trust i…

> And they weren't wrong. The drug war was (and is) a very real thing. I think it goes without saying that most were for the freedom to consume, produce, distribute, and use any drugs they see fit. Law enforcement were encroaching on that freedom. They were the aggressors coming in and disrupting a pretty peaceful process. In many cases, unprovoked. I don't think that's much of a misrepresentation.

The problem this is we, as a society, have decided that isn't legal and there isn't any constitutional protection to consume any substance you want.

This being the case, its the sort of thing you protest as a conscientious objector [even to the point of partaking and getting arrested], it isn't the sort of thing you kill for.

You kill as a means of self-defense and only in response to the application of force that directly endangers you in a way that is beyond the pale. For instance, being blocked from the political process or an intruder in your home.

We, as a society, have accepted that the rule of law is imperfect and violence is only an option if you are being abused to an obscene degree.

Re: Arrest of Senior Adviser to the Operator of the “Silk Road” Website

#17
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can try to give a reply. You have to remember what SR was for. These were people who were not only using SR, but active in the community as well. They were mostly engaged in illegal activities, a good deal of whom were active offline as well taking part in illegal activities. Law enforcement is a constant point of anxiety for every single person involved in this process. If someone who you thought you could trust i…

(Trying to figure out how to reply without sounding like I'm challenging an idea or putting someone on the defensive... All I can think of is: Thank you for the reply. Know that I respect everyone's viewpoint, and that we're only trying to chase a mystery.) If someone who you thought you could trust is now actively threatening your freedom (or access to a substance, which is also a form of freedom), you take action t…

> Am I just a coward? It's important in the abstract sense to fight for freedoms, and perhaps in the literal sense when one system (i.e. country) is at war with another.

You aren't a coward. Violence is an action of last resort and as long as you have the ability to fight politically [i.e. lobbying, protests] it is a tool to be avoided.

I think your reaction is more an unconscious understanding that violence is an extreme action of last resort rather than something to avoid a decade in prison for knowingly violating the law.

Re: Arrest of Senior Adviser to the Operator of the “Silk Road” Website

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know HN user gwern did some work partially documenting the forums. It was an interesting place to be, especially towards the beginning. I feel that most of us would've supported violence against those cooperating with law enforcement.

I am reminded of the quote ""Give me liberty, or give me death!" - Patrick Henry

Give me liberty or give them death?

Re: Arrest of Senior Adviser to the Operator of the “Silk Road” Website

#20
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can try to give a reply. You have to remember what SR was for. These were people who were not only using SR, but active in the community as well. They were mostly engaged in illegal activities, a good deal of whom were active offline as well taking part in illegal activities. Law enforcement is a constant point of anxiety for every single person involved in this process. If someone who you thought you could trust i…

(Trying to figure out how to reply without sounding like I'm challenging an idea or putting someone on the defensive... All I can think of is: Thank you for the reply. Know that I respect everyone's viewpoint, and that we're only trying to chase a mystery.) If someone who you thought you could trust is now actively threatening your freedom (or access to a substance, which is also a form of freedom), you take action t…

>But the idea of taking a bat to someone's head for betraying my trust in them is... Well, that's really the question to explore, right? How could someone actually do that, let alone approve of someone else doing that?

But, implicitly, you already do approve of that. Your government commits various forms of violence in your name, as all governments do - most notably in the form of military and police actions, some of which you may not agree with.

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