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KiCad 4.0.0 is Out

kicad-pcb.org

11–20 of 41 posts

Re: KiCad 4.0.0 is Out

#11
post #2

How does KiCad compare to Eagle?

Having just switched from EAGLE to KiCad I think I'm qualified to offer an answer to that question.

The short answer: it is better. If you are considering switching, do not wait, just switch. I should have done this sooner.

The longer answer:

Both tools have drawbacks and the user interface is bizarre in many ways in both of them. That said, KiCad at least is being regularly improved. I got tired of waiting for EAGLE to fix even the most ridiculous UI flaws. It seemed just as if EAGLE wasn't really developed anymore, just stuck way back in the 90s.

My schematics look much better these days. Hierarchical sheets help, too.

The separation of symbols from footprints is a great idea. As a practical example, I already have a small library of Texas Instruments packages (DRC, DRV, etc), which means that I can often just draw a symbol and immediately assign a verified footprint to it. No copying, and the footprints are shared, so if you modify paste coverage once, all parts using that footprint can immediately benefit. This idea is a clear winner.

Routing boards takes significantly less time than in EAGLE. Mostly because of the push and shove router — I don't think I'd even take on some boards I'm making these days without it.

The layers seem to be better organized: you don't get a hundred layers with weird names, the set is clearly defined and it's easy to understand what they are used for.

3D visualization is really great. I didn't think it would be useful, but I can't live without it these days. All the components in my libraries now have 3d models attached, even if the model is a simple cube. This helps greatly when designing small stuff that is supposed to go into real enclosures. Exporting to decent CAD packages isn't quite there yet (you can do it, but it requires significant effort), but the ability to instantly visualize your board helps a lot already.

The library management is as bad as it was in EAGLE. Perhaps slightly better because you can use github repos as sources, but in general it's a crappy experience. I hope this will improve in the future.

Finally, price is an important consideration. EAGLE is not free. If you do anything commercial, EAGLE suddenly starts to be quite expensive, especially if you want 4-layer boards or larger boards. Other commercial packages are even more expensive. So if you are a serious hobbyist who wants to produce small 4-layer boards at OSHpark, KiCad is really the best option.

In general, I see no compelling reason to stick to EAGLE unless you have zero time for learning new things.

Re: KiCad 4.0.0 is Out

#12
post #8

Would anyone use Kicad/Eagle these days if he/she has access to Altium Designer?

Would anyone use Altium, KiCad, or Eagle if they had access to OrCAD, Allegro, or PADS?

Having used all of those tools, I can say that KiCad and Eagle will remain relegated to the low layer count, and at most moderately populated PCBs. Altium still has issues with large designs, but it's got its advantages, it's very easy to work with industrial designers within the Altium ecosystem. Altium also supports some decent auto-routing and DFM tools but does not have a simulator of any kind.

Cadence's OrCAD and Allegro offerings, and Mentor Graphic's PADS suite have tools for everything from designing with microvia (laser etched single layer vias) to highly configurable constraint management tools that allow for configuring some very powerful auto-routers and interactive tools. The big two tools also have simulators like PSICE, and integration with RF design tools like Keysight ADS, Genesys, Momentum, Hyperlynx, and HFSS. If your design has any RF components or high speed buses like DDR, PCIe and USB, you need to run your designs through these tools to verify your design. Eagle, and KiCAD are great for breakout boards. Altium can be used for some pretty simple products. But I'd never use anything but Cadence or Mentor Graphics tools for anything that had a signal that operated at more than 50MHz.

Re: KiCad 4.0.0 is Out

#13
post #8

Would anyone use Kicad/Eagle these days if he/she has access to Altium Designer?

I recently switched from Altium Designer to KiCad, because while I do have access to Altium Designer, I wanted it to be more accessible.

KiCad is quite good, once you get the hang of it and the differences between Altium. I was able to put together reasonably complicated boards (OSH Park level tolerances) without a problem. If you want to do stuff like DDR routing and the like I don't think it's up to par, but most hobbyist projects (well, most projects in general) are very suited to KiCad.

I even designed an entire PCB on it from my Novena, which was pretty neat (2nd generation open source hardware!)

The oddest thing is that there's no built in standard part creation wizard, there's an online tool for it but it's a bit less than ideal.

Re: KiCad 4.0.0 is Out

#14
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Favorably. Obviously, it's free and open source, with no board size / layer limitations. On the other hand, Eagle is still much more widely used in the DIY community, and most my-first-PCB-like tutorials are Eagle-based. Kicad has for years suffered from the binary release being really, really outdated. Kicad development feels pretty fast-paced. It has most or all of Eagles features, and some nice advanced features E…

Can you comment on the situation with component libraries for kicad? How does it compare to Eagle? I've recently tried Fritzing but keep finding that some components aren't available. Defining my own is kind of tedious.

I generally end up using an online tool [1] for high pin count parts. It's not the best though, someday I will write something better.

BTW, in most professional contexts, parts are all created by the engineer - vendor part libraries are pretty rare. I know Altium is trying to change that, maybe soon we will see something similar happen with KiCAD.

[1] http://kicad.rohrbacher.net/quicklib.php

Re: KiCad 4.0.0 is Out

#15
post #12
post #8

Would anyone use Kicad/Eagle these days if he/she has access to Altium Designer?

Would anyone use Altium, KiCad, or Eagle if they had access to OrCAD, Allegro, or PADS? Having used all of those tools, I can say that KiCad and Eagle will remain relegated to the low layer count, and at most moderately populated PCBs. Altium still has issues with large designs, but it's got its advantages, it's very easy to work with industrial designers within the Altium ecosystem. Altium also supports some decent…

I think your Altium experience might be a little stale. Microvias in Altium are really easy since at least three or four years ago. It also supports basic SPICE simulation, but I've never used it. I use external SPICE and RF tools for most of my simulation needs. I've had good success designing RF boards in Altium and the only reason I would want to use Mentor Graphics would be if I had some massive digital design with high speed buses everywhere. You get what you pay for, but Altium is a solid tool at a decent price.

Re: KiCad 4.0.0 is Out

#16
Does anyone have a good resource for learning to design PCBs? I have a breadboard with some sensors that I want to make a PCB out of, just so the wires are tidy, but I watched an Eagle tutorial and it looked like there are tens of easy to make mistakes that will ruin your board. I'm not sure if that's true, but if it is, does anyone know of a resource that will at least teach me how to make this simple PCB avoiding the most common errors?

Re: KiCad 4.0.0 is Out

#17
post #12
post #8

Would anyone use Kicad/Eagle these days if he/she has access to Altium Designer?

Would anyone use Altium, KiCad, or Eagle if they had access to OrCAD, Allegro, or PADS? Having used all of those tools, I can say that KiCad and Eagle will remain relegated to the low layer count, and at most moderately populated PCBs. Altium still has issues with large designs, but it's got its advantages, it's very easy to work with industrial designers within the Altium ecosystem. Altium also supports some decent…

OrCAD better than Altium? Ha ha ha ha ha ha....

Re: KiCad 4.0.0 is Out

#18
post #11
post #2

How does KiCad compare to Eagle?

Having just switched from EAGLE to KiCad I think I'm qualified to offer an answer to that question. The short answer: it is better. If you are considering switching, do not wait, just switch. I should have done this sooner. The longer answer: Both tools have drawbacks and the user interface is bizarre in many ways in both of them. That said, KiCad at least is being regularly improved. I got tired of waiting for EAGLE…

[deleted]

Re: KiCad 4.0.0 is Out

#19

Does anyone have a good resource for learning to design PCBs? I have a breadboard with some sensors that I want to make a PCB out of, just so the wires are tidy, but I watched an Eagle tutorial and it looked like there are tens of easy to make mistakes that will ruin your board. I'm not sure if that's true, but if it is, does anyone know of a resource that will at least teach me how to make this simple PCB avoiding t…

This one is good: https://www.udemy.com/learn-kicad-printed-circuit-board-desi...

Re: KiCad 4.0.0 is Out

#20
post #19

Does anyone have a good resource for learning to design PCBs? I have a breadboard with some sensors that I want to make a PCB out of, just so the wires are tidy, but I watched an Eagle tutorial and it looked like there are tens of easy to make mistakes that will ruin your board. I'm not sure if that's true, but if it is, does anyone know of a resource that will at least teach me how to make this simple PCB avoiding t…

This one is good: https://www.udemy.com/learn-kicad-printed-circuit-board-desi...

Thank you!
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