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Air gaps never exist (2011)

gse-compliance.blogspot.com

21–30 of 53 posts

Re: Air gaps never exist (2011)

#21
post #16
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years ago I was told by a colleague that he was required to setup an administrative system that was NOT connected the network, but also had to be able to send and receive e-mail. The inherent contradiction was lost on the people giving the orders. So...

Well he was an expert.. wasn't he? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg (Draw seven perpendicular red lines)

+1, parenthetical

Re: Air gaps never exist (2011)

#22
post #4
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question - I have no idea. But if I google 'gas-filled tube ethernet', I get a number of hits like http://en.tdk.eu/blob/174150/download/5/smd-surge-arresters-... and http://www.first-electronic.com/uploadfile/2010989552637708.... which suggest that these products are sold for networking purposes to prevent surges. Since this is in a military context, I would hazard a guess that this may be some sort of standard…

The wording didn't sound like he was talking about a gas-discharge tube for surge protection. Also, that wouldn't have anything to do with security. I think what may be happening is the ethernet cable runs are in sealed tubes running at either positive or negative pressure so that if someone tries to breach the tube and splice onto the cable it would be detected by a pressure sensor.

My interpretation was that the gas tubes were TEMPEST shielding, but if so, I don't understand how it works...

Re: Air gaps never exist (2011)

#23
post #19

> I have seem so many kludges connecting SIPPER and NIPPER networks I don't know how much I trust someone who can't even get the acronym for SIPR and NIPR right ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIPRNet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIPRNet )

from the link: "SIPRNet and NIPRNet are referred to colloquially as sipper-net and nipper-net (or simply sipper and nipper), respectively"

Re: Air gaps never exist (2011)

#24
post #23
post #19

> I have seem so many kludges connecting SIPPER and NIPPER networks I don't know how much I trust someone who can't even get the acronym for SIPR and NIPR right ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIPRNet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIPRNet )

from the link: "SIPRNet and NIPRNet are referred to colloquially as sipper-net and nipper-net (or simply sipper and nipper), respectively"

when you pronounce them, sure, but why capitalize them like an acronym, but mis-spell the acronym?

Re: Air gaps never exist (2011)

#25
post #16
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years ago I was told by a colleague that he was required to setup an administrative system that was NOT connected the network, but also had to be able to send and receive e-mail. The inherent contradiction was lost on the people giving the orders. So...

Well he was an expert.. wasn't he? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg (Draw seven perpendicular red lines)

That sketch annoys me. Sure, marketing/sales/PM/design guys are idiots, whatever.

Here are 11 things "I can't do it" can mean:

I don't have time

I don't want to

I don't have anyone who knows how to

I want someone else to do it

I don't want to maintain it once built

I want to work on this other thing

Doing it would take away job security for me

I think it is beneath me

You're not going to use it anyway

I don't think it is worth doing

I think it is too expensive

I think it would be easyish to fill out another 10 reasons for what "can't" really means that are more common than "it is flat out impossible regardless of budget/resources".

Re: Air gaps never exist (2011)

#26
post #13
post #7

Pedantically, not a "gap" if there's a network cable going to another network...

Years ago I was told by a colleague that he was required to setup an administrative system that was NOT connected the network, but also had to be able to send and receive e-mail. The inherent contradiction was lost on the people giving the orders. So...

if the requirement is just email, seems like it would be quite feasible to set something up so that the MTA on the administrative system tunnels the email to the MTA of something network-connected in a non-tcp/ip kind of way (PTP microwave/laser link, printer-carrier pigeon-scanner combo, ...) that just passes the message over while remaining air-gapped

Re: Air gaps never exist (2011)

#27
post #16
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years ago I was told by a colleague that he was required to setup an administrative system that was NOT connected the network, but also had to be able to send and receive e-mail. The inherent contradiction was lost on the people giving the orders. So...

Well he was an expert.. wasn't he? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg (Draw seven perpendicular red lines)

Never thought I'd see it, but here's the solution to the expert problem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7MIJP90biM

Credit to D. Scott Williamson, Expert

Re: Air gaps never exist (2011)

#28
post #18

I thought "air gap" meant a machine or network that is physically separated (these days also without any radio connection) to other machines. How can those not exist?

Perhaps you should read the submission. The larger point here is that even if you set up a network in the first place which is genuinely airgapped, as time passes and systems evolve there will be constant pressure from within and without to re-establish a network connection somewhere in order to make everyone's lives easier and eventually, whether deliberate or inadvertent, a connection will be made (and of course, w…

> Perhaps you should read the submission. The larger point here is that even if you set up a network in the first place which is genuinely airgapped, as time passes and systems evolve there will be constant pressure from within and without to re-establish a network connection somewhere in order to make everyone's lives easier and eventually, whether deliberate or inadvertent, a connection will be made (and of course, we know that the NSA has a variety of infiltration and exfiltration methods to get across air gaps, such as dropping flash drives and waiting for an insider to be foolish enough to bring it inside).

The article is not well written, and I personally had to parse it several times to figure out what he was trying to say. I'm still not even sure if this is the correct interpretation.

> Believing that an air gap exists or will continue to exist indefinitely is hence setting yourself up for some unpleasant surprises in the future, and encourages weak security designs where the network/system is crunchy on the outside and all delicious and soft and gooey on the inside. (Which is more secure, to have your local WiFi set up with WPA or whatever and have employees telnet into servers, or just go Google-style and have fully encrypted end to end links without requiring any belief in security of the links?)

That depends on your physical security. A facility like the one he described should have had regular security audits to verify that no hard lines were placed where they should not be. All hard lines and ports should have been marked with identifying information. Nobody should have been able to keep a line open for any significant period of time unless these processes broke down.

Re: Air gaps never exist (2011)

#29
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years ago I was told by a colleague that he was required to setup an administrative system that was NOT connected the network, but also had to be able to send and receive e-mail. The inherent contradiction was lost on the people giving the orders. So...

if the requirement is just email, seems like it would be quite feasible to set something up so that the MTA on the administrative system tunnels the email to the MTA of something network-connected in a non-tcp/ip kind of way (PTP microwave/laser link, printer-carrier pigeon-scanner combo, ...) that just passes the message over while remaining air-gapped

Oh neat... so i just have to own the system by sending a bad attachment (containing the malware), and having exfiltration happen via mail attachments. Got it.

Re: Air gaps never exist (2011)

#30
post #13
post #7

Pedantically, not a "gap" if there's a network cable going to another network...

Years ago I was told by a colleague that he was required to setup an administrative system that was NOT connected the network, but also had to be able to send and receive e-mail. The inherent contradiction was lost on the people giving the orders. So...

UUCP delivered email (and Usenet and file transfers) for a very long time before full time network connections became the norm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UUCP

So, it is possible to send/receive email without an always on network connection.

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