Silicon Valley Is Not Driving Jobs Growth • Hacker News Board

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Driving Jobs Growth

#21

Post by whistlecrackers » Fri, Dec 04, 2015, 9:23 PM UTC

bko wrote: post #11

augustocallejas wrote: post #3

Here's a though experiment I came up with several years ago: Say one day you created a copy of the Earth and with that copy, it had the same population as the current Earth, and they were connected so you can travel between them easily. I can see that these two worlds would need twice as many barbers as the current world. Would these two new worlds need twice as many Google/Facebook/etc. employees?

People often forget that jobs are an expense, not a benefit. We should celebrate that society can do more with less. If someone thinks that jobs need to be created through artificial means to keep people busy and give them some money, then that person has a rather dim view of human potential.

The curse of machinery! http://steshaw.org/economics-in-one-lesson/chap07p1.html

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Driving Jobs Growth

#22

Post by branchless » Fri, Dec 04, 2015, 9:23 PM UTC

bko wrote: post #11

augustocallejas wrote: post #3

Here's a though experiment I came up with several years ago: Say one day you created a copy of the Earth and with that copy, it had the same population as the current Earth, and they were connected so you can travel between them easily. I can see that these two worlds would need twice as many barbers as the current world. Would these two new worlds need twice as many Google/Facebook/etc. employees?

People often forget that jobs are an expense, not a benefit. We should celebrate that society can do more with less. If someone thinks that jobs need to be created through artificial means to keep people busy and give them some money, then that person has a rather dim view of human potential.

To celebrate this we'd need a sharing of the common wealth. This is the polar opposite of the USA/UK.

Right now we have a people taking the most (much of it through rentier activity) and the rest are given make-work too keep from idle-hands.

If we had land value tax we'd be getting somewhere.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Driving Jobs Growth

#23

Post by jjoonathan » Fri, Dec 04, 2015, 9:27 PM UTC

bko wrote: post #11

augustocallejas wrote: post #3

Here's a though experiment I came up with several years ago: Say one day you created a copy of the Earth and with that copy, it had the same population as the current Earth, and they were connected so you can travel between them easily. I can see that these two worlds would need twice as many barbers as the current world. Would these two new worlds need twice as many Google/Facebook/etc. employees?

People often forget that jobs are an expense, not a benefit. We should celebrate that society can do more with less. If someone thinks that jobs need to be created through artificial means to keep people busy and give them some money, then that person has a rather dim view of human potential.

Our current economic system holds that people don't deserve food, shelter, medical care, or dignity if they don't have a job. If you believe that we should stick with the current system then the proposition "everyone should have a job" follows from "everyone should have food, shelter, medical care, and dignity".

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Driving Jobs Growth

#24

Post by hwstar » Fri, Dec 04, 2015, 9:27 PM UTC

Silicon valley doesn't produce much hardware like it did in the past. Instead it creates businesses with questionable customer value such as social networking, personal assistant services, short term house rental services, and other software-as-a-service businesses. There will be an implosion of these SAAS businesses at some point. After the dust clears, it will be interesting to see if Silicon Valley still is able to produce goods which customers want, or if some other area of the world will take over (e.g. Bangalore, Shenzhen).

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Driving Jobs Growth

#25

Post by mikelyons » Fri, Dec 04, 2015, 9:30 PM UTC

It doesn't have to! In fact, it should be driving everyone OUT of a job. It should be driving us to evolve away from the way we survived in the past, by trading time for money.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Driving Jobs Growth

#26

Post by j10t » Fri, Dec 04, 2015, 9:30 PM UTC

hwstar wrote: post #24

Silicon valley doesn't produce much hardware like it did in the past. Instead it creates businesses with questionable customer value such as social networking, personal assistant services, short term house rental services, and other software-as-a-service businesses. There will be an implosion of these SAAS businesses at some point. After the dust clears, it will be interesting to see if Silicon Valley still is able t…

> There will be an implosion of these SAAS businesses at some point.

Why?

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Driving Jobs Growth

#27

Post by evanpw » Fri, Dec 04, 2015, 9:31 PM UTC

bko wrote: post #11

augustocallejas wrote: post #3

Here's a though experiment I came up with several years ago: Say one day you created a copy of the Earth and with that copy, it had the same population as the current Earth, and they were connected so you can travel between them easily. I can see that these two worlds would need twice as many barbers as the current world. Would these two new worlds need twice as many Google/Facebook/etc. employees?

People often forget that jobs are an expense, not a benefit. We should celebrate that society can do more with less. If someone thinks that jobs need to be created through artificial means to keep people busy and give them some money, then that person has a rather dim view of human potential.

Related slatestarcodex post: http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/12/08/a-something-sort-of-lik...

"if your job can be done more cheaply without you, and the only reason you have it is because people would feel sorry for you if you didn’t, so the government forces your company to keep you on – well then, it’s not a job. It’s a welfare program that requires you to work 9 to 5 before seeing your welfare check."

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Driving Jobs Growth

#28

Post by hwstar » Fri, Dec 04, 2015, 9:32 PM UTC

branchless wrote: post #22

bko wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People often forget that jobs are an expense, not a benefit. We should celebrate that society can do more with less. If someone thinks that jobs need to be created through artificial means to keep people busy and give them some money, then that person has a rather dim view of human potential.

To celebrate this we'd need a sharing of the common wealth. This is the polar opposite of the USA/UK. Right now we have a people taking the most (much of it through rentier activity) and the rest are given make-work too keep from idle-hands. If we had land value tax we'd be getting somewhere.

All a land value tax will do is drive up rents. A tax on wealth above 2 million USD adjusted for inflation would be better.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Driving Jobs Growth

#29

Post by csarsam » Fri, Dec 04, 2015, 9:34 PM UTC

bradleyjg wrote: post #17

augustocallejas wrote: post #3

Here's a though experiment I came up with several years ago: Say one day you created a copy of the Earth and with that copy, it had the same population as the current Earth, and they were connected so you can travel between them easily. I can see that these two worlds would need twice as many barbers as the current world. Would these two new worlds need twice as many Google/Facebook/etc. employees?

Sounds a little bit like the Long Earth series by Pratchett and Baxter. Though there it was an infinite number rather than just two, they were initially unpopulated, and there were sharp limits on moving material between worlds. (Cool premise mediocre execution IMO.) Anyway re: your original thought experiment I'd say no. If you look at the rapid growth phases of those companies, I don't think the employee growth rat…

I loved the premise of that series. Great source of worldbuilding porn, less great source of story arc and character development.

I recall that in the expansion between worlds people with skills like medical training, agriculture and craftsmanship were valuable to settlement parties. In contrast, Helen Green's programmer father had to retrain in something like farming to be a viable member of a settlement party.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Driving Jobs Growth

#30

Post by laotzu » Fri, Dec 04, 2015, 9:34 PM UTC

bko wrote: post #11

augustocallejas wrote: post #3

Here's a though experiment I came up with several years ago: Say one day you created a copy of the Earth and with that copy, it had the same population as the current Earth, and they were connected so you can travel between them easily. I can see that these two worlds would need twice as many barbers as the current world. Would these two new worlds need twice as many Google/Facebook/etc. employees?

People often forget that jobs are an expense, not a benefit. We should celebrate that society can do more with less. If someone thinks that jobs need to be created through artificial means to keep people busy and give them some money, then that person has a rather dim view of human potential.

>If someone thinks that jobs need to be created through artificial means to keep people busy and give them some money, then that person has a rather dim view of human potential

One of the 3 main goals of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 is to achieve maximum employment. This is why politicians harangue on "putting country x back to work". The idea that "the devil finds work for idle hands to do" is deeply ingrained in the fundamental assumptions of political economy.