I can't seem to login, I enter the doctor username and password press submit and it refreshes the page and nothing shows.
Open source software for developing world hospitals
101–110 of 119 posts
Re: Open source software for developing world hospitals
#102Sorry another story about my journey with my son while he battled cancer. Closed Proprietary image formats and systems HURTS patients. We used the local hospital for Chemo and everything else at the Children's Hospital 1.5 hours away for his legs and lungs. I would always have to wait 20-30 minutes to get a DVD of the studies (PET, CT Scan or MRI even ultrasound, but those are worthless) and then bring them to the do…
Firstly, most medical images are actually being saved in a standardized format (DICOM, as other people mentioned) and I suppose that was the case for your son's records, too. However, the devil lies in the details, which is reflected in your experience.
While the images are saved as DICOMs, additional information (e.g. orientation of the image, patient data, etc.) can be saved to the DICOM meta-tags. There is some standardization as to which type of information to write into which meta-tag id, some manufacturers however have varying implementations of these standards. The result may be inconsistent meta-tag structure and naming. Example: Trying to determine the type of MRI sequence (= an imaging technique) including general physical parameters like TR and TE from the DICOM files. Every clinic may name the sequence differently. The parameters TR and TE may be in different DICOM tags, depending on the MRI manufacturer. For a correct assessment of any foreign MRI image, the physician should know the parameters (they usually have no idea).
Secondly, regarding MRIs specifically, every clinic has a different so-called protocol for different diseases. A protocol consists of multiple sequences. Example: For Brain Tumors, clinic A might want to take an MRI with the sequences X and Y. Clinic B may additionally want to use sequence Z. Furthermore, clinic B uses different variations of sequences X and Y with different parameters (think TE and TR). The surgeons in clinic B are used to planning their surgery on those specific MRI sequences. So the exact situation from your experience happens: Even though a patient provides all the images from other clinics, he/she will have to get the imaging done all over again. Additionally, this introduces totally unnecessary costs to the health system and patient.
This non-standardization in imaging sequences is hair-raising at least. And guess what, in my experience it's not even consistent within a given clinic within a specific disease.
Thirdly, regarding your experience with DVDs, they actually do include the DICOM files (in some strangely named directory, usually). However, they also include a totally crappy portable image viewing program which usually runs as autostart.exe (malware may be easily introduced here, on a sidenote). This viewing program is often a down-specced, completely outdated version of the original imaging program at the clinic. Most doctors outside big clinics do not understand that it makes far more sense to extract the DICOMs into a good DICOM viewer (e.g. OsiriX) for further assessment. Only big clinics usually have some sort of IT department which extracts the DICOMs and loads them into their PACS.
Reference: I did my doctors thesis (Germany) in MRI research and am nearly graduated from med school. Happy to finally contribute to HN :)
Re: Open source software for developing world hospitals
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not the point, the point is that the effort required makes it harder to innovate and that not only does that limit competition but it also enable proprietarism. In a perfect world you could just e-mail the data without any concerns of authenticity, privacy, robustness etc. But you can't, so you would have to bring in a huge firm that is going to spend a lot of money and effort getting everything right or at le…
OP Here: My only issue is that there needs to be a requirement of inter-operate with each other. Sure take a copyright and a patent pending BUT make it so that other company systems can speak to each other. The parent shouldn't have to have the burden of "Holy Crap I am the only person in the world to know everything about my child." Doctors and nurses shouldn't have to have me retell everything a hundred times when…
Re: Open source software for developing world hospitals
#104So I am actually finishing the development of a similar system for a group of anesthesiologists that needed a custom app to keep track of their patients and their pain medication.
Had I known of this project before I would have actually considered contributing/forking it to handle their use cases. See this hits pretty close home since I'm Colombian and hospitals here have terribly outdated systems.
I love the idea of the app working offline and syncing when internet is available since mobile networks here aren't verye reliable. One problem is,as others have mentioned, having it work on mobile is very important. I don't think it really is because of lack of PCs and desktops it's just that doctors are always running all over the place and it's more convienent for them to log the information on a smartphone/tablet.
Anyways my next project is also on the medical field and will have a wider scope so I'll keep an eye on this project for when the time comes, I'd love to contribute eventually.
Re: Open source software for developing world hospitals
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it's too easy to blame proprietarism as such. It's a lack of universal sophistication in computer technology that makes designing systems living up to real medical concerns great efforts. When the "manufacturing techniques" of computer software is modernized, and enables more widespread implementation of these types of systems, proprietary formats simple won't be able to compete.
That still means that proprietarism is a huge problem. I been through a melanoma I can attest to the absurdity.
Re: Open source software for developing world hospitals
#106I'd be very, very happy to contribute to this. It seems you have a nice focus in usability - efficacy, efficiency and satisfaction. For me, it seems vital to make IT useful and not a burden, reducing clinicians wasted time on non-clinical duties and their general distaste with the software they have to use. I'm a UX PhD, I have experience working with very particular groups of users, and I would be very motivated in…
Re: Open source software for developing world hospitals
#107A somewhat related commentary article on why electronic health records (EHR) are difficult to work with: they are focused on billing not patient care. Doctors would prefer a care-oriented system. This could be a great inroad for open source.
Re: Open source software for developing world hospitals
#108I've been volunteering in hospitals in a developing country for a while now and the information systems they use here are really bad. With an eye on replacing said information systems, I've had a look at the open source medical records / hospital management systems available. When I looked at the details these systems are often not great replacements. So you're replacing aging, poorly written information systems with…
Re: Open source software for developing world hospitals
#109Sorry another story about my journey with my son while he battled cancer. Closed Proprietary image formats and systems HURTS patients. We used the local hospital for Chemo and everything else at the Children's Hospital 1.5 hours away for his legs and lungs. I would always have to wait 20-30 minutes to get a DVD of the studies (PET, CT Scan or MRI even ultrasound, but those are worthless) and then bring them to the do…
I'm shocked and also confused in reading this. Why? Because the standards are there! The ACR/NEMA standard dates back to 1985(!) and is nowadays known as DICOM. Here in Germany/Europe, the medical imaging systems as well as the archive systems (PACS) are designed to follow that standard. DICOM covers everything, from the exact flavour of lossless(!) image compression, to the metadata structure which covers fiels more…
Even with DICOM, not all encodings (either low-level, like value representations, or high-level like transfer syntaxes and image compression algorithms) are supported by all viewers/PACS.
Finally, every system assign patients their own local ID and does their own local numbering/coding for precedure IDs and so on. This adds delays and work when loading foreign images into a PACS.
I won't get into the bugs. I work in the field and I've seen some low-level DICOM handling functions riddled with quirks, exceptions and work-arounds for buggy imaging machines. With all that, we still see images that are utterly broken and only openable in the original system.
When doing the transfer over a network, it's often possible to negotiate down to explicit VR and Big-Endian uncompressed images which is required to be implemented and gets workable (if large, 500+MB for CT) images. With a CD/DVD, you're at the mercy of whatever syntax the creating device felt like using.
If you include PET and similar, then you also need proprietary PET/CT or PET/MR fusion software to actually make use of the images.
Re: Open source software for developing world hospitals
#110That reminded me about story my friend told me some time ago. He's IT specialist in hospital, they were having some problems with x-ray machine with server based on windows XP and thin clients as viewing stations. Eventually it was replaced with debian based workstations and haven't look back ever since. After this he told me about interesting case with it, there was patient complaining about middle foot pains, on pr…
So basically doctors were missing fractures because they couldn't fiddle with hue, saturation and colors on the image viewer ? That's fucked up.
Any half competent clinical DICOM viewer will have a full set of intensity windowing tool. Anything that doesn't should have it's authorization to market revoked (i.e.: FDA 510(k)).