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Should kids learn to code?

theguardian.com

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Re: Should kids learn to code?

#11

Post by davidgerard »

I'll just post my Scratch blog post again: http://reddragdiva.tumblr.com/post/127964136013/it-turns-out...

There have been many simple languages for kids, but Scratch appears to be the one that works.

Speaking to my daughter's teacher, it's not just the academically-bright kids getting into Scratch - the academically average and academically behind ones do too. It appears to satisfy requirement #1: get the kid interested.

The important thing learning to program does is teach kids that the code that runs their world is a humanly tractable thing: that literally everything that any computer does is a more complicated version of a dancing ballerina animation.

They don't need to become coders to benefit from having an idea of how the machinery their civilisation runs on works, and not to just think of it as unknowable wizard magic.

Re: Should kids learn to code?

#12

Post by id122015 »

The article is about what Steve Jobs said, that “Everyone should learn how to program.." but Steve Jobs did not allow his kids to use a computer up to a certain age.

As I looked after children I can tell a certainty confirmed by others: "Millenials are cry babies". Nowadays children as small as a few years old want to do what their parents are doing, including to have a girlfriend, before they are able to stop using pampers..

http://captaincapitalism.blogspot.ro/2015/12/rant-of-day.htm...

Re: Should kids learn to code?

#13

Post by serge2k »

spooningtamarin wrote: post #8

Kids should learn problem solving skills. Math teachers of today are, unfortunately, quite different from those of yesterday. So, everyone believes they can do something more with programming.

So many of the arguments arguments about it are really just arguments for learning math.

But America sucks at teaching math, so screw that lets teach programming instead.

Re: Should kids learn to code?

#14

Post by weego »

Should kids learn a musical instrument

Should kids learn to play chess

Should kids learn to play soccer

Yes if it interests them. No if not. I feel like we might have solved this problem for X a number of times in the past.

I'd also warn against the notion that learning to code magically improves critical thinking/task management. They are accessory skills that good developers have or have learned.

Re: Should kids learn to code?

#15

Post by jfaucett »

I disagree with this. I feel like the general idea of "learning to code" is simply typing commands into a machine that then get executed exactly. The coding part teaches very little, just mainly how dumb machines are compared to self-aware human beings.

Kids should definately learn how to think algorithmically and understand mathematics/physics concepts (as opposed to repeating some pattern recognition which is to often the case) and if some type of coding facilitates engraining this knowledge I think that'd be great, but as of yet I haven't read a study that showed this to be the case.

As a programmer, when I have kids I'm not going to teach them how to code. I'd much rather they spent time playing outside, building things with their hands, acting in plays, playing music, reading books, writing papers, doing science experiments etc. Computers are nice tools to help you do these things but they are not ends in themselves.

this all IMHO of course :)

Re: Should kids learn to code?

#16

Post by pmilot »

malux85 wrote: post #2

Yes, even if they're not going to become programmers, coding teaches people two important skills that I see lacking: - The ability to break up large, seemingly daunting problems into smaller manageable chunks. - The ability to shift perspectives from the 50,000 foot view, down to the individual line of code view, and then back up to the 50,000 foot view, and then back down again! Variances in individuals abilities ca…

I agree that these are two very important skills, but I have yet to see a "Learn to code" endeavour that actually focuses on teaching these skills.

Usually, these are more focused on I/O and making the machine output interesting things like visual charts and sounds (something that is more immediately satisfying and therefore keeps the student's attention).

Re: Should kids learn to code?

#17

Post by Mikeb85 »

weego wrote: post #14

Should kids learn a musical instrument Should kids learn to play chess Should kids learn to play soccer Yes if it interests them. No if not. I feel like we might have solved this problem for X a number of times in the past. I'd also warn against the notion that learning to code magically improves critical thinking/task management. They are accessory skills that good developers have or have learned.

In school (public school in Canada) I was forced to play soccer (among other sports), learn a musical instrument (participation in the school band was not optional), and code (a required course had an HTML/JS component). I also learned chess because, why the hell not?

I quite enjoyed the experience of public school, and I like to think all the extra things they forced us to do made me a more rounded person. Because they were required, the cost was also subsidized, as I came from a low-income family I likely wouldn't have been able to do many of those activities outside of school.

Anyhow, as far as 'coding' specifically, I do think a few basic courses in school, in an easy to learn language with a fun/easy game engine would be great. Say Ruby or Python (or even something like Scratch). I do think schools should still focus on the basics though, maths/sciences/humanities/languages, the rest is just to create well-rounded people.

Re: Should kids learn to code?

#18

Post by amelius »

malux85 wrote: post #10
amelius wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are more "Software Architecture" skills, than programming skills. Let's not teach kids higher-level organizational skills, but save those for later. For kids it is important that they can play, and fail often.

I don't think there should be a difference, it's just a matter of scale. When they start off coding, it might mean an entire week spent in a single python file: The 50,000 foot view might be "Printing Restaurant Menu", the "line of code" view, might be getting the price of pizza. We're not talking architecture, or operating systems, or networking, or boolean circuit logic, or anything, we're just printing their favou…

Let me make an analogy: we're not going to teach kids how the food industry works before we're teaching them how to bake a cookie. We're also not teaching them about city planning before they had a chance to put some lego bricks together.

I think the important thing here is that kids need to see the necessity first. Only then can they start to deal with more abstract concepts. And actually, I don't think this applies to only kids. I think it is the reason that "learning by doing" is so much more effective than anything else.

To give an example related to programming. I have seen CS students use preconditions and postconditions (i.e., assertions), on functions, without understanding why they were using them. They just wrote those assertions because the teacher said they had to do it. Of course, the assertions are useful, but only for large, more complicated, programs. But since the assignment programs were all small, the usefulness of this particular software engineering instrument completely eluded them.

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