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Swift is Open Source

swift.org

341–350 of 458 posts

Re: Swift is Open Source

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This raises some interesting legal questions. If I start a git repo and only add a license in the Nth commit, does that license apply retroactively to a checkout of the first N-1 commits? What if I start out with one license but I change it in the Nth commit? If someone clones the git repo with the Nth commit in it and then checks out an earlier commit, which license applies? (For simplicity, assume I am the only aut…

You can retroactively make a license more open, but you cannot retroactively make it more closed.

That may be true for some open source/free software licenses, but I don't think it is true for all. It would depend on whether or not the license says it is irrevocable and whether or not the license is sub-licensable.

Let's suppose Alice gives Bob a copy of code whose copyright is owned by Charles, and the code was licensed to Alice under and open/free license.

If the license is revocable, Charles should be able to revoke the licenses for existing copies, and offer replacements that are more closed. Those who do not accept that replacement license should, I think, be able to continue using the copies they have but they will not have a license. Their rights will be limited to those rights that copyright law gives to owners of legally made copies. For software, that would mean they could use the code, but could not make and distribute copies or derivative works.

If the license is irrevocable, then Charles should not be able to take away existing licenses, but he may be able to stop issuing new licenses. That brings is to the issue of sub-licensing. If the license is sub-licensable, then when Alice gives Bob a copy, Alice can also give Bob a license via her sub-licensing right.

If the license is not sub-licensable, then Alice cannot give Bob a license. Bob's license has to come from Charles. So what happens if before Alice gives Bob a copy, Charles has decided to stop issuing new licenses?

I think Alice should still be able to distribute to Bob, because she has a license that allows distribution. Without a license from Charles, though, Bob would only be able to use the code for things copyright allows the owner of a particular legal copy to do without a license, which would be use it himself but would not include making and distributing copies and derivative works.

Alice might be able to argue that the terms of her license with Charles require Charles to provide licenses to those whom Alice distributes to, and so perhaps Alice could go to court to force Charles to keep granting licenses.

I don't recall enough from law school about third party beneficiaries to figure out whether Bob could sue Charles based on Alice's license to get a license from Bob for a copy he got from Alice, or whether, if Charles sued Bob for copyright infringement Bob could use Charles' contractual obligation to Alice in his defense.

Re: Swift is Open Source

#342
post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't necessary for iOS. It's still possible to write every part of an app in only Objective-C, as there are no Swift-only APIs. AFAIK, there are no indications of that changing any time soon.

OK, that it's the preferred (by Apple) language/platform for iOS development? I'm guessing you knew what I meant.

Except it isn't, the vast majority of Apple's internal iOS stuff is still written in Objective-C.

Re: Swift is Open Source

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way does Go scale badly from an engineering point of view?

It was our opinion that it's harder to write code that will be shared with a bigger team. Some of the factors were the simpler type system, lack of generics meant lots of copy and pasting of common patterns. The package system seemed less comprehensive and flexible in comparison to Java's. These are just subjective issues of course, but I think it's reaching a bit to say that Go and Swift are the best two languages y…

I'd agree with you about the type system, but what's wrong with the package system of Go? (I have little experience with Java's)

Re: Swift is Open Source

#344
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't work like that, you can't "bet your career" on a language. Either you are interested in continuous learning or you aren't, and it's pretty clear which one is a better choice when choosing between multiple employee candidates.

It does actually work like that, for me. I'm in my mid thirties and have worked in financial software development for over a decade. Given the day rate I'm earning for Scala development, I will be able to retire comfortably long before Scala goes out of fashion. Of course, I'll still be coding for fun after I've retired, so I'm looking forward to learning Swift in my spare time, alongside the other languages I code r…

Nice to hear it has worked well for you! I'll then modify my statement a bit a say that I would never suggest "betting a career" on a single programming language, but to of course dive in if a good opportunity presents itself.

Re: Swift is Open Source

#345
post #112

Github repo is live now. https://github.com/apple/swift First ever commit found here https://github.com/apple/swift/commit/afc81c1855bf711315b8e5...

It's really interesting that they decided to retain the full history! It also gives away some information about the initial contributors and the timeframe of when they started.

https://github.com/apple/swift/commit/afc81c1855bf711315b8e5...

Re: Swift is Open Source

#346

So does this mean we might finally get officially supported iOS development on Windows and/or Linux soon?

No. Swift the language is not to be confused with the iOS framework or tools. While more and more of iOS (and I presume XCode) is written in Swift, that all continues to be closed sourced code and is Mac specific.

:'( still I wait, likely without end

Re: Swift is Open Source

#347
post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a go fan, but seems like if anyone has scale problems, google would, and go would give them these issues too which is surprising since that was kind of the goal to solve from their perspective.

> but seems like if anyone has scale problems, google would Google doesn't use Go at such large scale though. Some projects here and there, and most of them small for all I've read. The most publicly celebrated ones being a MySQL front-end for YouTube and a caching-layer (?) for Google Downloads. Not exactly earth shattering applications.

My understanding is that beyond the examples you talk about that go is being used extensively in google as a backend glue language for automation and services.

https://talks.golang.org/2012/splash.article

Re: Swift is Open Source

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so we can take a look at what's new in Swift 3 Are new versions backwards compatible?

Historically they haven't been, and the page about planning for Swift 3.0 says it will introduce breaking changes. (It also mentions that Swift 2.2 will be released in the interim and its compiler will try to warn about things that will be broken in 3.0 so you can get your code ready early.)

It's interesting to compare Swift 2 -> 3 to the Python 2 -> 3 upgrade experience. Apple will simply break whatever they need to break to get the improvements they decide would be valuable, move on, and anyone who doesn't follow is likely to be left in the dust.

Frankly, I welcome it after years of feeling like the only Python 3 user on Earth.

For the next few years, I expect Apple will wield a great deal more power over the Swift user community than the Benevolent Dictator For Life has wielded over his supposed minions. I hope we'll get a better language this way, and that these changes won't simply break third-party products to make changes that mostly benefit Apple.

Rich, powerful giant gives power to fork to the little people. Will it be like C#? Like Java? Eventually like Python? Should be interesting....

Re: Swift is Open Source

#349

I find the number of typo PRs to be amusing. Makes me wonder if there's a mass effort to slog through commented code just to jump into the contributor list. Correct spelling is certainly good, but the interesting phenomenon is getting a PR merged in a high-profile project - however slight the change - as a badge of cool. https://github.com/apple/swift/pulls?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Ap...

This is absolutely a case of earning a badge of having contributed to this complex famous project, but it is also a way to on-board and empower people. Recruiter should always look deeply and not taking "contribution" at face value.

Re: Swift is Open Source

#350
post #49

A lot of folks to thank at Apple right now, can't wait until all of this propagates so we can take a look at what's new in Swift 3. Two thoughts: - VERY happy to see the open sourcing of much of the Foundation libraries (which includes strings, dates, networking primitives, concurrency/task queues, I/O, etc). It'll provide a very strong start and make working with Swift immediately productive. - Holy crap, there's a…

> This has been sorely needed since about day one of Swift development, glad to see that it's been a priority as part of the effort to open source!

While not first-party, https://github.com/Carthage/Carthage

Swift's appears to possibly be limited to Swift, so Carthage will still be useful to integrate with Objective-C frameworks.

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