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Mark Zuckerberg’s Philanthropy Uses L.L.C. For More Control

nytimes.com

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Re: Mark Zuckerberg’s Philanthropy Uses L.L.C. For More Control

#61

Post by whatok »

rmc wrote: post #44
Nrsolis wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how this is a problem. He's following the law and organizing his affairs to retain control of the money he earned. You aren't less of a citizen because you try to not pay more tax than you owe. The exemptions for certain types of income are put there because the legislature wants to promote certain activities as beneficial to the public good. Charitable Remainder Trusts are one of those things written int…

> Seriously. does anyone reading this post think the government is a better steward of their income than they are? If you think so, then donate 100% of your income to the government and live on public assistance. That option is provided on the tax return you sign here in the USA. Nonsense. I can support the idea of a democratic welfare state, and be opposed to the rich avoiding taxes, without having to give up all my…

Quickly brought to mind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_in_the_game_(phrase)

Re: Mark Zuckerberg’s Philanthropy Uses L.L.C. For More Control

#62

Post by whoiskevin »

mikeash wrote: post #47

I don't think I've seen a single positive statement about Zuckerberg's foundation. It would have been 100% fully within his right to simply keep it all, or blow his fortune on snorting Fabergé eggs, or buying classic cars and crashing them. Instead, he's giving almost all of it away. He's choosing to retain control over how it's given away? Well so what! It's still way better than keeping it all. I am no fan of Faceb…

"Meanwhile, how much are the commenters themselves giving away? Oh, somewhat less than 99%? Yeah."

Terrible statement. If a commenter here makes 100,000 and gives away 99% well they are now extremely poor. If I have billions and give away 99% my life isn't likely to change.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg’s Philanthropy Uses L.L.C. For More Control

#63

Post by andzt »

fweespeech wrote: post #53
mikeash wrote: post #47

I don't think I've seen a single positive statement about Zuckerberg's foundation. It would have been 100% fully within his right to simply keep it all, or blow his fortune on snorting Fabergé eggs, or buying classic cars and crashing them. Instead, he's giving almost all of it away. He's choosing to retain control over how it's given away? Well so what! It's still way better than keeping it all. I am no fan of Faceb…

> I am no fan of Facebook, but man, the amount of vitriol coming out about this move just astounds me. Giving away 99% of your wealth is apparently not commendable unless you do it just right. Meanwhile, how much are the commenters themselves giving away? Oh, somewhat less than 99%? Yeah. I can put 99% of my wealth in a LLC and claim I'm giving it away. that doesn't make it true . If he was being honest and genuine,…

As a correction to your assumption and other comments in this thread, charitable trusts (depending on the many ways you can set these up) do not guarantee ANY money will ever be given to charity. Most require a distribution, but many do not dictate how this distribution is to be used or put a limit on how much can be distributed (although large distributions may still incur taxes). It's often used as a way to pass on an inheritance to avoid or limit tax consequences.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg’s Philanthropy Uses L.L.C. For More Control

#64

Post by adsche »

CPLX wrote: post #60
mikeash wrote: post #47

I don't think I've seen a single positive statement about Zuckerberg's foundation. It would have been 100% fully within his right to simply keep it all, or blow his fortune on snorting Fabergé eggs, or buying classic cars and crashing them. Instead, he's giving almost all of it away. He's choosing to retain control over how it's given away? Well so what! It's still way better than keeping it all. I am no fan of Faceb…

> he's giving almost all of it away > He's choosing to retain control You're aware that those two things are opposites right?

At least please finish reading the second sentence you tried to quote.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg’s Philanthropy Uses L.L.C. For More Control

#65

Post by fweespeech »

andzt wrote: post #63
fweespeech wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am no fan of Facebook, but man, the amount of vitriol coming out about this move just astounds me. Giving away 99% of your wealth is apparently not commendable unless you do it just right. Meanwhile, how much are the commenters themselves giving away? Oh, somewhat less than 99%? Yeah. I can put 99% of my wealth in a LLC and claim I'm giving it away. that doesn't make it true . If he was being honest and genuine,…

As a correction to your assumption and other comments in this thread, charitable trusts (depending on the many ways you can set these up) do not guarantee ANY money will ever be given to charity. Most require a distribution, but many do not dictate how this distribution is to be used or put a limit on how much can be distributed (although large distributions may still incur taxes). It's often used as a way to pass on…

> Most require a distribution, but many do not dictate on how this distribution is to be used or put a limit on how much can be distributed. It's often used as a way to pass on an inheritance to avoid or limit tax consequences.

Yes but you can write the documents in such a way that it is required. In other words, I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that it was legally structured that way which is possible with such trusts.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg’s Philanthropy Uses L.L.C. For More Control

#66

Post by sharkweek »

mikeash wrote: post #47

I don't think I've seen a single positive statement about Zuckerberg's foundation. It would have been 100% fully within his right to simply keep it all, or blow his fortune on snorting Fabergé eggs, or buying classic cars and crashing them. Instead, he's giving almost all of it away. He's choosing to retain control over how it's given away? Well so what! It's still way better than keeping it all. I am no fan of Faceb…

I think Chan and Zuckerberg will do incredible things with this money, but I also appreciate the cynicism of ultra-rich philanthropy.

We as a society will be reliant on "hoping the kings are just with their gold" as they make decisions based on their personal preferences. This is undemocratic and should be under perpetual scrutiny. I likely agree with what Chan and Zuckerberg will be doing with this money, but what about other ultra-rich folks giving a ton of money to high priced arts where their relatives all work in high paying jobs in the name of charity? Nothing inherently wrong with this in a vacuum, I love the arts, but when these donations take money away from other tax-reliant services such as schools, the net benefit to society should certainly be considered.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg’s Philanthropy Uses L.L.C. For More Control

#67

Post by 33W »

amalag wrote: post #6
jcsnv wrote: post #5

Its sad to see how these comments are going focus on this being a tax dodge. He is doing SOMETHING with 99% of his money for the greater good.

Not necessarily. He has just moved it around. He is ANNOUNCING he will do something good. He could use all the money to bankroll candidates or invest in for-profit companies. Nothing has changed yet except that he can avoid estate taxes. He however has said he will do something "good".

I'm wondering if investing in for-profit companies is a major influence of this decision. With this, the LLC can invest in solar startups, or obscure medical companies. As a philanthropic enterprise, no one expects it gain profits from its investments. As a LLC, it isn't limited in where the money can go.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg’s Philanthropy Uses L.L.C. For More Control

#68

Post by CPLX »

adsche wrote: post #64
CPLX wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he's giving almost all of it away > He's choosing to retain control You're aware that those two things are opposites right?

At least please finish reading the second sentence you tried to quote.

I did. If he's retaining control over how it's going to be given away then that makes it clear that he hasn't given it away yet.

Giving a thing away means you no longer have control of the thing. That's not a side effect, it's the literal plain meaning of the concept.

Him saying he is going to give it away $44 billion in the future should be evaluated in much the same way as my claim that I will receive $44 billion in the future, with healthy skepticism.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg’s Philanthropy Uses L.L.C. For More Control

#69

Post by stuartaxelowen »

whoiskevin wrote: post #62
mikeash wrote: post #47

I don't think I've seen a single positive statement about Zuckerberg's foundation. It would have been 100% fully within his right to simply keep it all, or blow his fortune on snorting Fabergé eggs, or buying classic cars and crashing them. Instead, he's giving almost all of it away. He's choosing to retain control over how it's given away? Well so what! It's still way better than keeping it all. I am no fan of Faceb…

"Meanwhile, how much are the commenters themselves giving away? Oh, somewhat less than 99%? Yeah." Terrible statement. If a commenter here makes 100,000 and gives away 99% well they are now extremely poor. If I have billions and give away 99% my life isn't likely to change.

Well, 50%? 25%? 5%?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg’s Philanthropy Uses L.L.C. For More Control

#70

Post by mikeash »

whoiskevin wrote: post #62
mikeash wrote: post #47

I don't think I've seen a single positive statement about Zuckerberg's foundation. It would have been 100% fully within his right to simply keep it all, or blow his fortune on snorting Fabergé eggs, or buying classic cars and crashing them. Instead, he's giving almost all of it away. He's choosing to retain control over how it's given away? Well so what! It's still way better than keeping it all. I am no fan of Faceb…

"Meanwhile, how much are the commenters themselves giving away? Oh, somewhat less than 99%? Yeah." Terrible statement. If a commenter here makes 100,000 and gives away 99% well they are now extremely poor. If I have billions and give away 99% my life isn't likely to change.

You have a point. I guess I'll allow them to keep more than 1% of their money.

Wait, you mean I don't get to decide what other people do with their money? Exactly.

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