Leaving the Mac App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Leaving the Mac App Store

#411

Post by TazeTSchnitzel » Wed, Dec 02, 2015, 3:07 PM UTC

jdminhbg wrote: post #371

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pattern is because they're the exact same app. All of those are just the iTunes Store, which is a web page on every platform. The iTunes Store is a little clunky but it works fine. Apple also have the Apple Store, which is a separate thing that's a website - I believe it's a WebObjects app and the iTunes Store is as well.

> Apple also have the Apple Store, which is a separate thing that's a website - I believe it's a WebObjects app and the iTunes Store is as well. This might have changed since they rolled the store into the main apple.com site, but as far as I know none of that is public for sure.

They did roll it into the main site, yeah, but I'd be surprised if it's actually a different app now.

Re: Leaving the Mac App Store

#412

Post by joeblau » Wed, Dec 02, 2015, 5:10 PM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #409

joeblau wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think it's as easy as you think. I've been developing iOS and Mac apps for 8 years so my response is based on that experience.

Yeah. So don't know how much web you have done. But in my experience and many others i know who have done both. It really is much harder than web.

  > So don't know how much web you have done.

I've been developing websites since 1998.

Re: Leaving the Mac App Store

#413

Post by ThomPete » Wed, Dec 02, 2015, 6:32 PM UTC

joeblau wrote: post #412

ThomPete wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. So don't know how much web you have done. But in my experience and many others i know who have done both. It really is much harder than web.

> So don't know how much web you have done. I've been developing websites since 1998.

OK then I guess we just have to very different experiences of doing layout :)

Re: Leaving the Mac App Store

#414

Post by pkamb » Wed, Dec 02, 2015, 7:34 PM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #175

IMO sandboxing on desktop is failed attempt. Browser is a sandbox platform. Nobody will download some shady application and run it, even if it's sandboxed (but a lot of people don't really mind to visit a shady website). If an application is in AppStore, it means that Apple got some legal documents from developer, it means that Apple performed some automated scans on application binaries. For me it's enough to have s…

And it's not as if non-Sandboxed applications won't be used. They'll just be distributed outside the app store. So all of the potentially "dangerous" apps are one-more-step removed from Apple's oversight and ability to pull the app and halt downloads. Gatekeeper gives them some power in this regard, but what's the point of not allowing them in the Mac App Store? Is the PR from having a keylogger in the MAS really that different from the recent Instagram password harvester for iOS, or a Mac keylogger that was direct-downloaded?

Re: Leaving the Mac App Store

#415

Post by mh- » Wed, Dec 02, 2015, 8:12 PM UTC

kybernetyk wrote: post #344

jhbadger wrote: post #283

How do apps like "Clozure Common Lisp" get around the sandboxing? The Mac App Store version isn't crippled in any way I can see -- it can read and write outside its directory -- for example it can use the quicklisp package manager which stores files in my home directory?

It seems not to be sandboxed at all. At least that's what codesign reports for the binary.

I just downloaded it.. there is indeed no entitlements, no container, nothing.

I guess it must have an exemption given that it was originally in the app store prior to the mandatory sandboxing deadline[0].

[0] http://www.macworld.com/article/1167055/sandboxing_deadline_...

Re: Leaving the Mac App Store

#416

Post by kilon » Wed, Dec 02, 2015, 9:01 PM UTC

Dont get what the big deal is, Mac App Store is far from the most popular way to install new apps. The vast majority of my desktop apps for my iMac i got them from outside Mac App Store via the web. Out of the 20 apps I got on my dock only 2 are from App store.

And I dont think that any of the other apps I have on my dock are even available from app store.

Re: Leaving the Mac App Store

#417

Post by justinclift » Wed, Dec 02, 2015, 9:15 PM UTC

quarterto wrote: post #42

dubcanada wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sketch 3 and Affinity Designer are two completely different markets. Sketch is a vector editing program (competing with Adobe Illustrator and Inkscape), Affinity Designer is a photo editing program (competing with Photoshop and Pixelmator).

You're thinking of Affinity Photo. Affinity Designer is probably closer to Illustrator than Sketch is, since it's geared towards vector illustration rather than UI design.

Thanks for mentioning this. Hadn't come across Affinity Designer before. Taking a look now, it seems good.

Also seems like it would work with my old (mostly offline) macbook running 10.7.5. ;)

Re: Leaving the Mac App Store

#418

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 4:23 AM UTC

dangero wrote: post #229

xenadu02 wrote: post #204

The worst part about this is all the problems are easily solved if Apple simply put the resources into it. * The actual MAS store app itself is a horrible piece of garbage wrapping a bunch of web views. Just make it a real native app and rewrite it. * Sandboxing is great, but there will always be things that fall outside the sandbox. Have a "Power User / Developer Tools" category and associated checkbox in iTC that s…

"The actual MAS store app itself is a horrible piece of garbage wrapping a bunch of web views. Just make it a real native app and rewrite it." Native app is not really a black and white concept when you're talking about an app that mainly just interprets and displays live data it receives. If it's not html, then it's going to be xml/json/some other markup with a custom presentation layer on top. Why would that be bet…

[deleted]

Re: Leaving the Mac App Store

#419

Post by leonroy » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 10:47 AM UTC

janfoeh wrote: post #245

dangero wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The actual MAS store app itself is a horrible piece of garbage wrapping a bunch of web views. Just make it a real native app and rewrite it." Native app is not really a black and white concept when you're talking about an app that mainly just interprets and displays live data it receives. If it's not html, then it's going to be xml/json/some other markup with a custom presentation layer on top. Why would that be bet…

You're probably right. I would still agree with the parent in that they feel like a badly done webview wrapper, because the symptoms are so similar. iTunes Store, App Store, MAS, Apple Music — there is definitely a pattern there, at least on the desktop. I find them all similarly clunky, slow, ugly and unpleasant to use. Apple almost seems to be inherently incapable of creating a decent store front, and I am curious…

I don't think that most web developers looking for a job think 'Apple'. Google and Facebook would likely be their top pick and not surprising since both of those companies are far more web centric - Apple has historically not been so.

It's almost a chicken and egg situation where unless Apple builds top tier web apps they won't attract top tier web devs. Without top tier web devs they of course will struggle to build scalable, fast and user friendly web apps.

I'd imagine inertia also plays a role. Apple clearly have a lot of talent who know Cocoa and Obj-C inside and out. Chances are their current devs prioritise those kinds of apps over the kinds you might see Google or FB prioritise. Heck look at how long it took FB to come out with a decent iOS app. Their first mobile version was HTML with a native wrapper. It took FB time to build the talent base to do a decent app (believe they even had to hire Loren Brichter to consult to help them with it!).

Every company has its specialities. Apple is getting better but as their data loss issues with Photos and Apple Music, as well as their problems with MobileMe show they are clearly finding it hard getting web devs who can build what they need fast enough. It'll take them time - they have enough cash to get there but they sure are alienating a lot of users and devs with these issues.

Re: Leaving the Mac App Store

#420

Post by mpweiher » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 8:35 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #44

milen wrote: post #40

Apple has completely lost the goodwill of Mac developers. The one and only reason the ones that haven't gone bankrupt are still staying is because they have no other choice due to platform lock-in. Every single conversation that I've had with indies recently have gone along the same lines: Apple is killing the indie scene. I wrote about the MAS exodus [1] more than a year ago and people were skeptical back then. Thin…

I've been dumbfounded as well. A company that makes scores of billions on products, should be able to spend millions on a decent app store. Yet it continues to be a bottleneck, fail to serve app developers, and strangle innovation. It all seems so futile.

Why do you think the AppStore is not working as intended?

http://jasongriffey.net/wp/2012/04/19/commoditizing-our-comp...