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Any astronomers want to weigh in? If the natives are so against it being built, why not build elsewhere?
Also, The tmt is the next big US telescope, and they don't know of Any other site that is as good inside the country.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't understand. They haven't been denied a permit, they had the permit. Construction had begun. They were given the go ahead, handshook on a deal with the state of Hawaii-- giving way more than any telescope before. And now, they've been cut off in the middle of full scale production. It's a bit of a sucker punch because, for eight years, survey planning, software programming, building design, etc. have been unde…
Yes they had the permit but it was issued in violation of apparent rules. Appeals to lost investment and appeals to how great science is don't automatically trump this or do you want to live in a world where one government bureaucrat's wrong decision is set in stone?
Any astronomers want to weigh in? If the natives are so against it being built, why not build elsewhere?
I very much understand the frustration on display here about the setback to science from this decision. But (admitting up front that I don't know a lot about the specific cultural context) I'm surprised by the lack of sympathy being shown for the people who evidently hold this space sacred. All the (great!) scientific rationale in the world doesn't change the fact that this fits really well into the age-old pattern o…
(Shrug) I don't see those "other cultures" making investments in time, money, and education to try to understand the secrets of the Universe. In this case, their representatives appear to be doing the opposite.
In my book, that makes the native Hawaiian culture inferior to my own. Sue me.
Can someone clarify to me why they are insisting on building it on that specific mountain where it has been met with resistance from day one?
I very much understand the frustration on display here about the setback to science from this decision. But (admitting up front that I don't know a lot about the specific cultural context) I'm surprised by the lack of sympathy being shown for the people who evidently hold this space sacred. All the (great!) scientific rationale in the world doesn't change the fact that this fits really well into the age-old pattern o…
>...justified by the Western societies
>...the pattern in Western history
You should try living in the East. A similar scenario in China would not go down the same way. The telescope would go up and there would be very little hand wringing involved in the decision.
Any astronomers want to weigh in? If the natives are so against it being built, why not build elsewhere?
Yeah, just as long as they make sure their permits are in order first... oh wait, that didn't work so well.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, just as long as they make sure their permits are in order first... oh wait, that didn't work so well.
Well, it would seem that their permits were not "in order" and therein lies the problem.
I very much understand the frustration on display here about the setback to science from this decision. But (admitting up front that I don't know a lot about the specific cultural context) I'm surprised by the lack of sympathy being shown for the people who evidently hold this space sacred. All the (great!) scientific rationale in the world doesn't change the fact that this fits really well into the age-old pattern o…
All the (great!) scientific rationale in the world doesn't change the fact that this fits really well into the age-old pattern of Western societies barging in and imposing their will on other cultures (Shrug) I don't see those "other cultures" making investments in time, money, and education to try to understand the secrets of the Universe. In this case, their representatives appear to be doing the opposite. In my bo…
I'm sure if you took honest stock of your culture there would be no shortage of episodes many times more egregious than this forced permit reevaluation and by your own shoddy reasoning that would make native Hawaiian culture superior to your own.