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This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

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Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is impossible to prove a yoga class at a university harms a culture. It is easily provable that forcing these people not to meet on campus as a group does real actual harm. And I don't care about their feelings, I care about fairness and justice.

I think the argument would be more along the lines of: "You're calling this Yoga, but here is what Yoga has meant historically in my culture, which is actually quite different." I think the types of behaviors people attribute to PC nazis or similar are understandable responses by groups of people who are usually ignored by the mainstream so they raise a stink (read: pay attention to us or else!). Conversely putting p…

> I think the argument would be more along the lines of: "You're calling this Yoga, but here is what Yoga has meant historically in my culture, which is actually quite different."

This argument was actually made in the case of the University of Ottawa. The yoga instructor even offered to rename the class to "mindful stretching" so as not to associate it with the spiritual and cultural aspects of yoga / Yogi Practice, but was still shut down by the student's union because they felt that it was gentrifying and demonstrated cultural appropriation.

Personally I think the vast majority of culture has been stolen or replicated from older cultures and I don't think that having a stretching class really constitutes some kind of injustice just because it is derived from traditional yoga.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#622
post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be clear. You're saying it's okay to fire people for saying "it's not okay to fire people for bigotry". Yes? If you're not okay with that, if you think Josh Olin should not have been fired, please say so. I can see your argument, here. I disagree with you, but that's not what I want to get at here. What I want to get at is this: it's one thing to be scared of making racist jokes. It's another thing to be scared…

I am not in fact saying that particular incident is or is not ok. (I also don't think his tweets are fairly characterized by your summation.) As I mentioned, I am addressing the line of argument, not the case. What I amsaying is that when the "freedom of speech" flag only gets hauled out for pro-bigotry straight white guys, I think it's not really about freedom of speech but instead defense of privilege. If defenders…

You're addressing a line of argument about which I said "that's not what I want to get at". And you're ignoring the actual thing that I've been talking about. The thing about which I said "it makes me pretty uncomfortable when..." and "I don't have a polite term for this".

I disagree with some of what you're saying, and I agree with other bits of it. But I strongly disagree with the thing that you're doing and not even acknowledging.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's not appropriate to ask that an authority come in and forcibly establish a zone in a shared space where-in some speech is okay and other speech is not. How do you feel about your HR department and their anti-discrimination and harassment policies? :) You get more protections from harassment in the workplace than students get on campus. Tolerance of intolerance (e.g., hate speech) leads inevitability to the exti…

> Tolerance of intolerance (e.g., hate speech) leads inevitability to the extinction of tolerance itself. I would argue that this is an unverified and overblown statement. In fact, I don't even see why this would eventually lead itself to be true, unless you already consider bigotry and hatred to be the majority norm in a very pervasive sense. I could write more on the matter, but others have done some considerable s…

> I'm sure we all agree that we ought to love one another and I know there are people in the world that do not love their fellow human beings and I hate* people like that.*

-Tom Lehrer, Intro to National Brotherhood Week

http://www.last.fm/music/Tom+Lehrer/That+Was+The+Year+That+W...

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#624
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People in the real world will treat you like crap, no matter what. Why should we accept this?

We shouldn't and don't. In fact, if someone is making you feel unsafe at work (especially if it's because of your gender, race, etc), HR has a responsibility to address it.

> HR has a responsibility to address it

HR has the responsibility to protect the firm from legal dangers, so don't be surprised if their solution involves the plaintiff being fired.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We shouldn't and don't. In fact, if someone is making you feel unsafe at work (especially if it's because of your gender, race, etc), HR has a responsibility to address it.

> HR has a responsibility to address it HR has the responsibility to protect the firm from legal dangers, so don't be surprised if their solution involves the plaintiff being fired.

> HR has the responsibility to protect the firm from legal dangers, so don't be surprised if their solution involves the plaintiff being fired.

Retaliation in response to a complaint exacerbates, rather than mitigates, the legal danger to the firm.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holding the opinion that safe spaces are cudgels of fear used to intimidate people probably indicates exactly what I said it did.

At this point, I realize you're trolling, but in the interest of anyone else reading I feel it's appropriate to reply. I'm someone who pretty universally supports the rights of others to be themselves, however that might be, and be treated with respect as a human being. That said, the term "safe space" is something I've never personally encountered being used in the context you present it in. When a group of like-min…

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Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is impossible to prove a yoga class at a university harms a culture. It is easily provable that forcing these people not to meet on campus as a group does real actual harm. And I don't care about their feelings, I care about fairness and justice.

I think the argument would be more along the lines of: "You're calling this Yoga, but here is what Yoga has meant historically in my culture, which is actually quite different." I think the types of behaviors people attribute to PC nazis or similar are understandable responses by groups of people who are usually ignored by the mainstream so they raise a stink (read: pay attention to us or else!). Conversely putting p…

There's nothing understandable, and certainly not mindful, about a bunch of childish students telling someone they can't do Yoga because it might hurt someone's feelings. Especially when the argument devolved into "You can't even have a stretching class (no longer associated with yoga), because it might hurt someone's feelings." That is ripe for hurtful, deserved, mockery.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#628
post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word "Creation" only means "the universe" in the context of Creationism... so ,assuming you are correct about its meaning, the word "Creationism" isn't actually necessary to show that the sentence was created by a creationist.

No, pretty much any Christian of any denomination understands Creation to mean "all that is created by God", i.e. the whole universe and all therein. The Catholic church, by far the largest "denomination", does not teach young-earth creationism, and I doubt that belief is shared by any more than a small minority even of Protestants. Perhaps they join the concepts because they know that the opponents of their faith of…

My apologies.. I lumped "god-driven evolution" in with creationism. Where I live most christians don't accept evolution and I forget that in other parts of the world there can be more nuisance. I have never actually heard that evolution is proof of no god, only that god isn't necessary for evolution to work which seems like a different thing to me. In fact wrt "proof", the point I am more familiar with is that god is an unfalsifiable concept which means can't be proved or disproved (which is why faith is required). However, I am sure there is a whole spectrum of quality when it comes to arguments against theology just like there is with anything else.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is HackerNews a safe-space for programmers? If you say anything negative about PG or silicon valley, you are downvoted. If you don't follow its rules, you are banned. If you don't have the same opinion as everyone else, don't follow the strict posting guidelines you are kicked out. It's philosophy is all fund raising capitialism, if you try something crazy you don't get funded. Isn't HackerNews just an extreme safe-s…

I've upvoted you because I feel you've received some unfair downvotes here. Anybody who's been on HN for more than a month knows there is a set of topics that will trigger massive discussion threads, for which there is a generally accepted community opinion. If you go against those opinions, you will be downvoted. Go ahead: try saying that you're against the very idea of a basic income for all citizens in a BI thread…

> I'd defy anyone to tell me exactly which one of the rules at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html this his/her post is breaking

I'm not going to hang out on algolia for an hour to dig up the post, but I'm 99% sure PG ended up endorsing downvotes-as-disagreement (or at least condoning it).

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#630
post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's not appropriate to ask that an authority come in and forcibly establish a zone in a shared space where-in some speech is okay and other speech is not. How do you feel about your HR department and their anti-discrimination and harassment policies? :) You get more protections from harassment in the workplace than students get on campus. Tolerance of intolerance (e.g., hate speech) leads inevitability to the exti…

I strongly suspect your definition of "harass" borders on what I would call academic discourse. A university and a office are two very distinct environments. University is designed to create an environment for learning, growing, debating, being challenged in ones preconceived notions, and in some ways, it's also a crucible to help prepare young adults to enter society as productive members. To apply the same standard…

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