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This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

okwu.edu

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Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#441

Post by nashashmi »

lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

You just mentioned all of these things to gather support for your post. But then I think you missed the point of the article.

Article Point: A student shouldn't complain because the content of the lecture hurts their "feelings". If they disagree, that is fine.

Your point: The college doesn't like certain acts being part of their community. The college doesn't like certain speech being part of their community. And it doesn't like it if you do not believe in the faith.

The two points are not related.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#442

Post by laotzu »

coldpie wrote: post #351
laotzu wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think they'd find it insulting that you are holding them to a lower standard?

Good point, I've been phrasing that poorly. Maybe something like I don't think people should be required to walk around with a shell of emotional armor to participate in modern society.

I'd call it emotional strength rather than emotional armor. In any case I wholeheartedly agree with standing up for people who are having a hard time. But simply censoring and covering up the darkness will only cause it to fester and grow stronger while the emotional strength of the supposed victim atrophies.

This reminds me of a passage from MLK's Letter From a Birmingham Jail:

>Actually, we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured. But though I was initially disappointed at being categorized as an extremist, as I continued to think about the matter I gradually gained a measure of satisfaction from the label. Was not Jesus an extremist for love: "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you." Was not Amos an extremist for justice: "Let justice roll down like waters and righteousness like an ever flowing stream." Was not Paul an extremist for the Christian gospel: "I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus." Was not Martin Luther an extremist: "Here I stand; I cannot do otherwise, so help me God." And John Bunyan: "I will stay in jail to the end of my days before I make a butchery of my conscience." And Abraham Lincoln: "This nation cannot survive half slave and half free." And Thomas Jefferson: "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal . . ." So the question is not whether we will be extremists, but what kind of extremists we will be. Will we be extremists for hate or for love? Will we be extremists for the preservation of injustice or for the extension of justice?

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#443

Post by sago »

wfo wrote: post #297
sago wrote: post #6

I think the world would be better if, before you're allowed to respond to someone being wrong, you have to first be able to express their position in a way that they agree represents their view. Because 'political correctness' isn't the cancer at the heart of social politics, it is straw-manning. On both sides of every issue. I'd be surprised, perhaps even amazed, if Dr Piper had represented the complaint in any way…

I suspect this was completely honest. You will not believe what comes out of the mouths of some of these students. Straw-manning is necessary; do you think either participant or the audience has the patience to sit and thoughtfully and carefully consider all sides of any issue in any debate? If that debate were publicized nobody would watch it. And it's a prisoner's dilemma. If you try to be respectful and thoughtful…

> Straw-manning is necessary

Well, if you're going to advocate that everybody just believe whatever they want without facts or reason, don't be surprised if people tl;dr your comment and ignore you.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#444

Post by analyst74 »

SeanDav wrote: post #92
sago wrote: post #6

I think the world would be better if, before you're allowed to respond to someone being wrong, you have to first be able to express their position in a way that they agree represents their view. Because 'political correctness' isn't the cancer at the heart of social politics, it is straw-manning. On both sides of every issue. I'd be surprised, perhaps even amazed, if Dr Piper had represented the complaint in any way…

A little research will produce a vast number of examples of political correctness with real consequences and not just "straw-manning". Here is a recent example: A Canadian university cancels a yoga class because yoga comes "from a culture that “experienced oppression, cultural genocide and diasporas due to colonialism and western supremacy,” In a world that can do that, I don't find it surprising that a student could…

According to the article, it was canceled because "they couldn't get a French name and nobody wants to do it"

I think this has more to do with Francophone people feeling marginalized as opposed to colonialism or caring for Indian people's feelings.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#445

Post by intortus »

aggieben wrote: post #411
lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

There's a stark difference between a free and voluntary association of like-minded people and a so-called "safe space", which uses a pretext of "victimization" to capriciously thought control others who simply committed the offense of disagreeing or criticizing. If you hate Christianity, why would you go to this school? If you aren't willing to follow behavioral rules, why would you go to this school? If you think ph…

> "Safe-spaces", on the other hand, are cudgels of fear, handed to anyone claiming "victimization" to be capriciously used against people with whom they simply disagree and want to shut up.

Oh please. Now who's fear-cudgeling whom? You're being extremely melodramatic in reaction to a questionable anecdote.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#446

Post by VikingCoder »

This is not a day care! So sit down and feel guilty while I tell you about the invisible man who lives in the sky and judges your for touching your genitals. This 2,000 year old book is filled with magic recipes for living after you are dead, and you should grow up and listen to them.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#447

Post by [deleted] »

aggieben wrote: post #411
lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

There's a stark difference between a free and voluntary association of like-minded people and a so-called "safe space", which uses a pretext of "victimization" to capriciously thought control others who simply committed the offense of disagreeing or criticizing. If you hate Christianity, why would you go to this school? If you aren't willing to follow behavioral rules, why would you go to this school? If you think ph…

[deleted]

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#448

Post by ahallock »

darkr wrote: post #389
lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

> It's honestly baffling because I am sure there are hundreds of very smart people there who must realize this, including the professors and administration. Well, they can't be that smart, given they haven't yet figured out that there is no supernatural dude who lives in the sky who communicates with them telepathically, and there is no such thing as ghosts (holy or otherwise).

Or they are smart and have figured it out--figured out that religion gives them power and control over others, like any cult structure.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#449

Post by logfromblammo »

cthalupa wrote: post #268
czep wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just cited a blog which has this on their About Us page: "If whites permit themselves to become a minority population, they will lose their civilization, their heritage, and even their existence as a distinct people." Instead of allowing your father to fear for his and your safety based on his irrational and bigoted views, perhaps you could educate him not to accept data from fringe sources. Your reproduction of…

This is a logical fallacy that is unfortunately rampant on here. It's an ad hominem - the source may be a bunch of shitty people, but if we're arguing that we shouldn't accept something, attack the actual content of the message. It's generally quite easy to do so when the source of information is biased, so dismantle the message if you want to argue about how it's incorrect. It looks like these numbers posted were ve…

It's not entirely an ad hominem. The original claim contains an implicit appeal to authority in citing the link to the blog. Saying that the authority cited is not actually a valid authority (due to a known bias) is not quite the same as ad hominem.

We resort to reputation to calibrate the burden of proof. If the source cited is not a valid authority, that doesn't make them wrong, but it does make it harder for them to establish a claim that merits rebuttal.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#450

Post by mc32 »

aggieben wrote: post #411
lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

There's a stark difference between a free and voluntary association of like-minded people and a so-called "safe space", which uses a pretext of "victimization" to capriciously thought control others who simply committed the offense of disagreeing or criticizing. If you hate Christianity, why would you go to this school? If you aren't willing to follow behavioral rules, why would you go to this school? If you think ph…

If all self selecting groups would address the issue as exemplified in this case, I think we'd be better off. While I could not care less about this college or its mission, I'm glad they are confronting the issue of manufactured offense. Taking offence at anything which makes someone feel uncomfortable mentally/psychologically. People should be able to deal with the ugliness of reality as a matter of course rather than something which affronts them or something which calls their existence into question.

Harassment, of course, is something different and malicious and should be confronted uncovered and called out, but simple discourse, antagonistic as may be, is something humans should learn how to engage with with relative ease, rather than recoil and become less able to deal with the realities of living in a complex and undanitized society.

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