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This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

okwu.edu

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Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#381

Post by tdkl »

EthanHeilman wrote: post #130
ucaetano wrote: post #12

"Oklahoma Wesleyan is not a “safe place”, but rather, a place to learn" Exactly, I don't get why people are trying to make universities, workplaces, clubs, or anywhere else "safe places". They should not be safe places, they should be places where you feel confronted, challenged and threatened by different ideas and points of view.

>Exactly, I don't get why people are trying to make universities, workplaces, clubs, or anywhere else "safe places". I'm not directly disagreeing with you here or putting words in your mouth. I realize you are not saying safe spaces should not exist. Instead I want to make the argument that having safe spaces is reasonable. People make safe spaces _within_ universities and other institutions for the same reason some…

Veterans actually did something. Students are being used to nannying while acting as adults.

Actually this behavior is just because of peace time in todays western world. If students were afraid of actually being in danger, they wouldn't bitch about these things.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#382

Post by mcguire »

SeanDav wrote: post #92
sago wrote: post #6

I think the world would be better if, before you're allowed to respond to someone being wrong, you have to first be able to express their position in a way that they agree represents their view. Because 'political correctness' isn't the cancer at the heart of social politics, it is straw-manning. On both sides of every issue. I'd be surprised, perhaps even amazed, if Dr Piper had represented the complaint in any way…

A little research will produce a vast number of examples of political correctness with real consequences and not just "straw-manning". Here is a recent example: A Canadian university cancels a yoga class because yoga comes "from a culture that “experienced oppression, cultural genocide and diasporas due to colonialism and western supremacy,” In a world that can do that, I don't find it surprising that a student could…

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/ottawa/university-ottawa-...

Make of it what you will.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#383

Post by qstyk »

intortus wrote: post #227
lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

Doesn't matter. There's an anecdote about a student being a crybaby and that's the biggest threat facing humanity today. Get with the program. We can deal with the Christians once we sort out the safe spacers.

Preferably, we can deal with the people that accept hear-say and anecdotes to carte blanche dismiss demographics that they aren't a part of. Especially those in forums that claim to be based on an intellectual mindset. We can deal with them, once we deal with people that attempt to ridicule a legitimate concern by making it sound like the person making the point is presenting it as "the biggest threat facing humanity today."

The pervasive whining being addressed in the article is spot on and was recently addressed in another HN posting: http://heterodoxacademy.org/2015/11/24/the-yale-problem-begi...

There is a large segment of society that assumes that any alternate point of view, irrespective of how it's presented, must be an attack against them. This is akin to chastising someone warning people not to pick up the active business-end of an arc-welder.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#384

Post by mikeash »

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #45
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dr Piper's other public statements show that's very uncomfortable about and offended by many things - not least of which is majority support for gay marriage. Or any kind of homosexuality at all. He's so incredibly uncomfortable with both he'd rather they simply didn't exist. I have very little patience with anyone who runs the kind of moral racket that Dr Piper runs - which is making a career out of pretending to be…

> In my world their opinions get no respect at all. You should try separating the opinion from the man and analyze the former without taking the shortcut of appealing to the authority of the latter.

Can't we analyze both the opinion and the man? I think it's legitimate to point out that this person complaining about how students can't handle dissent also wants to impose his own opinions on the entire country through force of law, even if he may have a point in this particular case.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#385

Post by ams6110 »

sotojuan wrote: post #308
Shivetya wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems completely contrary to the idea of universities, to challenge your beliefs, overcome your fears, expand your knowledge, and more. That real threat is these narcissistic cretins who use intimidation and worse the courts to get their way will one day influence the laws we live under. We won't have any privacy if people who want all offensive ideas and actions curtailed and boxed. Instead of running away from 1…

These days college is just another motion to go through before getting a job. It may sound cynical, but these kinds of students couldn't care less about any of what you said. They just want to be in day care for four years and then leave.

these kinds of students

You are right, but I just wanted to clarify that by no means are ALL college students there for a 4-year party and a safe room to run to when something upsets them.

Many are still there for academic and philosophical challenges and growth, and are appalled that this noisy minority is getting so much attention.

Really, if there's anyplace that goes above and beyond the call to be sure that all races, all sexual orientations/identites have equal access and opportunity, it's the modern public university. It's the last place you'd expect to see this kind of whinging.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#386

Post by knodi123 »

vdaniuk wrote: post #138
Juliate wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that people's feelings should come first (especially before truth/understanding of reality) is not uncomfortable, but a dangerous, misleading, childish posture. University is for adults, not toddlers.

>University is for adults, not toddlers. Oh really, so university students are able to consume alcohol, right? edit: noun: adult; - a person who is fully grown or developed. - a person who has reached the age of majority. edit 2: "Longitudinal neuroimaging studies demonstrate that the adolescent brain continues to mature well into the 20s. This has prompted intense interest in linking neuromaturation to maturity of j…

College students are, on the overwhelming majority, fully grown and physically developed. While they are not fully mentally developed, I don't think you could make the case that anybody below the age of death is incapable of further mental development.

The article on age of majority makes it clear that it is a distinct concept from age of license, which can cover things like buying alcohol and running for elected office. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_majority

Honestly, your edit seems to put the nail into the coffin of your entire point.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#387

Post by coderdude »

gozo wrote: post #319
coderdude wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we really do need to weed out the people who can't handle the argument at hand based on personal insecurity before moving forward in any discussion. Otherwise, you're just wasting cycles on them and not the actual issue. (This addresses only the first part of your comment.)

I have a really hard time following this discussion. I assume you are against safe spaces, but isn't that pretty much what you're suggesting as a solution here? How is "insecurity" any sort of measurable standard that doesn't quickly equate to anyone you disagree with?

I'm not against safe spaces in general. Surely it is appropriate at times for safe spaces to exist.

I don't think it's possible to measure insecurity and I don't think it's necessary to measure it. With enough life experience you can detect insecurity in an adult by the the things they say and their reactions to certain events.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#388

Post by tdkl »

kordless wrote: post #316

> Our culture has actually taught our kids to be this self-absorbed and narcissistic Actually, children are necessarily and healthily narcissistic. They need this to help them move from a codependent relationship with their parents to a more balanced one as the turn into adults. Blaming them for this trait is ridiculous.

You forgot about responsibilities. Being a little bitch isn't a trait.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#389

Post by darkr »

lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

> It's honestly baffling because I am sure there are hundreds of very smart people there who must realize this, including the professors and administration.

Well, they can't be that smart, given they haven't yet figured out that there is no supernatural dude who lives in the sky who communicates with them telepathically, and there is no such thing as ghosts (holy or otherwise).

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#390

Post by ahtierney »

afarrell wrote: post #315
merpnderp wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning only happens when there are consequences for being wrong. Aside from being ridiculed by people they disagree with and thus don't care about being ridiculed by, they have faced no consequences.

> Learning only happens when there are consequences for being wrong If I'm writing a toy project to teach myself WebGL, what are the consequences for doing something incorrectly and later having to debug it?

I would argue the act of debugging it is the consequence. You assume something to be correct (or make a stupid mistake), you face the fact that it's not, you adjust your behavior and gain insight into facing the problem again. Same thing applies to social experience, the difference is in WebGL there is something approximating a 'right way.' I never thought Yoga would be contentious, some people do, now I'll think about it and try and understand why they feel that way.
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