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This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

okwu.edu

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Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#361

Post by mafribe »

maaku wrote: post #21
lagadu wrote: post #3

I find it baffling that there are people, in the real world, who somehow think that for unexplained reasons they have the right to not be offended or be made to feel uncomfortable. Somehow they believe that their feelings are the responsibility of everyone else.

While I sympathize with your viewpoint, perhaps I can shed some clarity on the other side. The concern is not feelings getting hurt, but rather physical security as a person of minority status. This is something that a white heterosexual middle-class male (such as myself) can probably never fully appreciate, but I try to sympathize. Imagine what it is like to be black in a country where just a few generations back yo…

Interisting juxtaposition that you do:

   accused and convicted of a crime you didn't commit
and

   1 in 3 suffer sexual assault
Does this number include false accusations? If not, what scientifically credible methodology did you use to distinguish false from valid accusations?

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#362

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #45
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dr Piper's other public statements show that's very uncomfortable about and offended by many things - not least of which is majority support for gay marriage. Or any kind of homosexuality at all. He's so incredibly uncomfortable with both he'd rather they simply didn't exist. I have very little patience with anyone who runs the kind of moral racket that Dr Piper runs - which is making a career out of pretending to be…

> In my world their opinions get no respect at all. You should try separating the opinion from the man and analyze the former without taking the shortcut of appealing to the authority of the latter.

So you don't agree that the process by which someone reaches a moral position is open to question?

The simpler argument is that Dr Piper is really in no position to act like anyone's external conscience. He has no basis whatsoever to claim that he's either qualified or competent to act in that role.

Now, clearly he believes otherwise. That's very much his prerogative.

It's everyone else's prerogative to decide whether or not they agree.

I'd suggest that anyone who claims to be promoting genuine independent thought is going to be willing to engage in an open debate.

"You're acting like a child and you shouldn't feel the way you do about the things I say" is neither an open position nor an honest one. It's an attempt to shut down debate about an ethical position, not an attempt to encourage it.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#363

Post by 6stringmerc »

myth_buster wrote: post #325
lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

I agree with the jist of what is said by the president, but while reading this I felt the religious intonations were a bit strong and the article not object enough. Reading your comment does provide correlation to the strong religious sentiments. Also their mission statement: As an evangelical Christian university of The Wesleyan Church, Oklahoma Wesleyan University models a way of thought, a way of life, and a way o…

Thanks for posting the Mission Statement. Got me thinking a little bit more about their "values" so I was able to quickly dredge up a course catalog. Why? I wondered what their take on Biology would be - you know, that whole Evolution thing.

To wit:

Biology Major — Students will demonstrate the following outcomes, upon completion of the Biology degree offered by the School of Arts and Sciences:

1. A sound basic understanding of the chemistry of life.

2. A sound basic understanding of prokaryotic and eukaryotic cell structure and function.

3. A fundamental knowledge of Classical, Molecular, and Population genetics.

4. A sound basic understanding of the proposed mechanisms of evolution and understanding of Creation.

5. A sound basic understanding of the structure and function in plants and animals.

6. A sound basic understanding of ecology.

7. Integration of the Biblical Principles into life sciences.

Needless to say, I'm not surprised by the "framing" of Evolution and, essentially, equivocating its merit with, um, Biblical Creationism.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#364

Post by philh »

wpietri wrote: post #198
CodeCube wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I gotta say, anecdotally, this is what I often find ... the people complaining about political correctness, are those that have in the past been openly racist, or at a minimum, fond of racially charged jokes (ie. "black people are great, everyone should own one"). They are chafing against a cultural change that no longer appreciates and/or tolerates behavior like that.

Yeah. As a white guy, I get that our current loss of privilege feels like a loss. Change is always uncomfortable, so I can see why people would be inclined to push back. And I get that we all learned to express privilege partly through behaviors that conveniently just happen to maintain privilege (behaviors like those racist jokes). But still, it's frustrating how many people who supposedly pride themselves on their…

People aren't just scared of being forbidden from making racist jokes. People are scared of being forbidden to express opinions.

Like, here's someone who was fired for saying someone else shouldn't have been fired: http://www.gamerevolution.com/manifesto/turtle-rock-communit...

And it makes me pretty uncomfortable when people express "fear of being attacked for doing something that's okay", and other people turn that into "fear of being attacked for doing something that's not okay", and attack them for it.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#366

Post by tdkl »

coldpie wrote: post #222
Tenhundfeld wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IEFD_JVYd0 Along with some NYT coverage on this general topic: http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/11/02/when-a-gener... This issue of students complaining about trigger warnings and the need for safe spaces certainly seems to be increasingly prevalent, but that could just be due to the media giving it more attention.

Interesting that according to that NYTimes link, offensive speech is considered protected "free speech," while people objecting to offensive speech does not qualify. I have just as much a right to tell you you're an asshole and not welcome near me as you do to say offensive things to me.

"Free speech" and "freedom of acting like a little bitch" are two different things though.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#367

Post by return0 »

maaku wrote: post #21
lagadu wrote: post #3

I find it baffling that there are people, in the real world, who somehow think that for unexplained reasons they have the right to not be offended or be made to feel uncomfortable. Somehow they believe that their feelings are the responsibility of everyone else.

While I sympathize with your viewpoint, perhaps I can shed some clarity on the other side. The concern is not feelings getting hurt, but rather physical security as a person of minority status. This is something that a white heterosexual middle-class male (such as myself) can probably never fully appreciate, but I try to sympathize. Imagine what it is like to be black in a country where just a few generations back yo…

While i sympathize with suffering, suffering is not a heritable condition. Only a small percentage of old people in the americas correlates black with slavery, and another small fraction of the US/northern europe has a beef with jews. For a large majority of humans who don't hate, these are things that baffle you when you read history books .

In any case i don't see how 'safe spaces' are helping. In dealing with an enemy you first have to know your enemy. I 'd rather have someone telling me they hate me openly so i can do something about it, rather than keep it in hiding and be ambushed.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#368

Post by ams6110 »

lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians

Well it's an evangelical college. It is what it says on the tin. They disapprove of certain behaviors they consider immoral, but if you don't know that going in, you didn't do your research.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#369

Post by coldpie »

LunaSea wrote: post #348
coldpie wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go on. How does the first amendment protect you from me and my associates shunning you for your offensive speech?

Because the first amendment gives me the right to say or write anything. This is a fundamental right in a democracy.

And under the same amendment, my associates and I are free to shun you for your speech. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that the US constitution applies to private citizens. It does not. It specifies what the US government is allowed to do. I'm not an agent of any US government, so it does not apply to me.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#370

Post by bovermyer »

Ignoring everything else about this article, its context, and my personal feelings about Christian "education," I can't help but feel like the author is not terribly professional.

Universities frequently forget that their instructors and their students have entered into a business transaction with them. Students expect to receive a useful education, and instructors expect to have their research and publication subsidized, and the university expects to receive payment from the former and quality of service from the latter.

Anything that disrupts that transaction - such as university presidents getting huffy that "kids these days are too sensitive" - tends to cause a failure of the end result of all three components: education itself.

I wish more tertiary-institution administrators realized that they're operating a business, not some kind of wisdom dispensary that students should feel grateful for being allowed to attend.

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