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This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

okwu.edu

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Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#321

Post by giltleaf »

wfo wrote: post #297
sago wrote: post #6

I think the world would be better if, before you're allowed to respond to someone being wrong, you have to first be able to express their position in a way that they agree represents their view. Because 'political correctness' isn't the cancer at the heart of social politics, it is straw-manning. On both sides of every issue. I'd be surprised, perhaps even amazed, if Dr Piper had represented the complaint in any way…

I suspect this was completely honest. You will not believe what comes out of the mouths of some of these students. Straw-manning is necessary; do you think either participant or the audience has the patience to sit and thoughtfully and carefully consider all sides of any issue in any debate? If that debate were publicized nobody would watch it. And it's a prisoner's dilemma. If you try to be respectful and thoughtful…

>plenty of people use this tendency to give both sides to every issue equal credence and carefully consider both, so they inject some absurd ridiculous view as the other side and abuse your tendency to respect them to gain credence for it.

>And it's a prisoner's dilemma. If you try to be respectful and thoughtful and the other person screams and yells and abuses and strawmans then you will lose the 'debate' by any metric not implemented by a philosophy professor.

Absolutely, and it's one of the most frustrating things I think a lot of reasonable, polite people come up against.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#323

Post by jellicle »

lawlessone wrote: post #197
jellicle wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being generous to the author. I'd be amazed if anyone at all had complained to the university president about their sermon. "The complaining student" is now a trope along the lines of the cab driver who always speaks to New York Times columnists in a way that is convenient for their column.

Don't forget that time that Navy SEAL punched a professor for saying God didn't exist. That Navy SEAL was Albert Einstein.

Yeah, pretty much. The likelihood of a student at a private, conservative, Oklahoma, evangelical, religious school going up to the school president/religious leader after a sermon and making a supposed left-wing, liberal, "I'm so easily offended that I get offended by your sermon about love" complaint is zero.

People on HN are taking this straw man attack and running with it, though. It's meme-licious.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#324

Post by Juliate »

vdaniuk wrote: post #262
fixermark wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're conflating a binary with a continuum. The dominant American culture is not one with a single consistently-applied rite of passage to adulthood. Over about a decade, people go though multiple transitions (age of majority, voting age, drinking age---heck, a lot of people even recognize the age at which rental car companies stop applying a "You're probably a dangerous driver" surcharge, at 25 years old).

Yes, adulthood is a continuum. That's why it's wrong to say that college is for "adults". Some of students are very immature, some have more wisdom than older people. So I am not disagreeing with your point of view.

I see your point now, not disagreeing either.

Meant adult as a contrast to toddlers (whom feelings and sense of security we do care about, for good reasons) and as a status that you target, grow into and nurture, especially more at the university (and hopefully after as well).

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#325

Post by myth_buster »

lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

I agree with the jist of what is said by the president, but while reading this I felt the religious intonations were a bit strong and the article not object enough. Reading your comment does provide correlation to the strong religious sentiments.

Also their mission statement:

  As an evangelical Christian university of The Wesleyan Church, Oklahoma 
  Wesleyan University models a way of thought, a way of life, and a way of 
  faith. It is a place of serious study, honest questions, and critical 
  engagement, all in the context of a liberal arts community that honors the 
  Primacy of Jesus Christ, the Priority of Scripture, the Pursuit of Truth, and 
  the Practice of Wisdom.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#326

Post by jonknee »

darkerside wrote: post #271
lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

It would be great if the top comment were about the content of the article instead of the character of the institution.

I found it very related to the content of the article. Even the title--the President of Oklahoma Wesleyan University doesn't realize that he really is running a day care for the college aged children of Christian parents. My brother went to a similar school and it's an absolute joke (down to needing to be signed out to leave campus!).

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#327

Post by lghh »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #314
lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

Is HackerNews a safe-space for programmers? If you say anything negative about PG or silicon valley, you are downvoted. If you don't follow its rules, you are banned. If you don't have the same opinion as everyone else, don't follow the strict posting guidelines you are kicked out. It's philosophy is all fund raising capitialism, if you try something crazy you don't get funded. Isn't HackerNews just an extreme safe-s…

> I've seen it in multiple contexts and expect to see it more.

Because it's a reasonable argument to make. Saying "you can't take this from me and claim it is a bad thing when I do it but a good thing when you do it" is a perfectly fine way to respond.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#328

Post by return0 »

I wonder how "real" is this "safe space" trend that the US is talking about lately. Is it an actual thing or a passing trend which will be forgotten till summer?

In any case its one of the weirdest things ever, older generations accusing the younger of not being radical enough. Perhaps the youths are right though, some freedoms are just too much, we don't need to exert them, the same way we don't need privacy anymore. There is value in safety, familiarity, coziness, instead of being out in the open wind. It's perhaps some kind of alienation towards multiculturalism/multiethnicism, and the constant bickering that comes with democracy.

Safe spaces come at a cost though, as they inevitably turn to a form of terrorism, radical religious extremist groups for example begin with the formation of safe walled gardens in their communities.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#329

Post by laotzu »

coldpie wrote: post #320
laotzu wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I sincerely believe our society would be improved if people could live how they want, provided they harm no one else. That may be but an insult is not harmful unless you accept it personally. When you accept an insult you are the one hurting yourself.

That works for many people, but I'm willing to hold people to a lower standard than that.

Don't you think they'd find it insulting that you are holding them to a lower standard?

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#330

Post by CaptSpify »

lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

I went to a similar school (not affiliated with OKWU), and had a very similar experience. I tried asking certain questions which were...not encouraged. Additionally, we had: Bible-majors for men, and Christian-Education Studies for women. I saw many women who were failed essentially because they were a woman and "women shouldn't be pastors, they should be Sunday-School teachers".

The education was much more about "life-style management and shaping", than actual objective education. Basically, they told us that we can't "drink, smoke, etc", but then complained when we went and told them we were having any type of personal problems.

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