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This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

okwu.edu

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Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#291

Post by woah »

dahart wrote: post #263
SeanDav wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A little research will produce a vast number of examples of political correctness with real consequences and not just "straw-manning". Here is a recent example: A Canadian university cancels a yoga class because yoga comes "from a culture that “experienced oppression, cultural genocide and diasporas due to colonialism and western supremacy,” In a world that can do that, I don't find it surprising that a student could…

What is the "real" consequence here? And is it still straw manning, in a sense, to make judgements based on an incomplete story, and jump to conclusions about someone else being wrong, without the whole story? I don't know about the yoga class incident, but I don't automatically see the ridiculousness the rest in this sub thread appear to -- it seems pretty reasonable to me for a group of students to check their assu…

It was invented by Indian fitness gurus to market to the west.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#292

Post by laotzu »

This is known as the victim mentality, and it is not so strictly limited to higher education as is stereotyped.

The victim mentality is a social engineering tactic commonly used in mainstream media which has cascading effects on all levels of society and has been used for manipulative purposes by the ruling class, both religious and political, for ages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_mentality#History_and_p...

>Any person capable of angering you becomes your master; he can anger you only when you permit yourself to be disturbed by him.

-Epictetus

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#293

Post by lghh »

coderdude wrote: post #282
lghh wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the biggest threat facing humanity today. Hyperbole? > We can deal with the Christians I don't want to deal with the Christians. I don't agree with their worldview most of the time, but the don't need to be dealt with. > once we sort out the safe spacers They are the safe spacers, just by a different name. Also, I think safe spaces are fine and they don't need sorted out. I was just making an observation on his hyp…

No, we really do need to weed out the people who can't handle the argument at hand based on personal insecurity before moving forward in any discussion. Otherwise, you're just wasting cycles on them and not the actual issue. (This addresses only the first part of your comment.)

What do you mean by weed out? What are you expecting to do with them? (Not attacking, just asking)

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#294

Post by yummyfajitas »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #258
PedroBatista wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why there is something called Statistics and they show that you are objectively wrong. Now, about your feelings and uncomfortableness it's up to you.

Statistically speaking, police stop and look for crime disproportionately to minorities. no? http://m.nydailynews.com/news/crime/nypd-targets-minorities-...

That's completely irrelevant. The data cited comes from the NCVS. It's based on a phone poll. "Have you been the victim of any crimes in the past year?" "Who committed the crime?"

The purpose of the NCVS is to track crimes and their characteristics without relying on (often biased, and frequently manipulated) police reports.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#295

Post by jellicle »

strickjb9 wrote: post #182
jellicle wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being generous to the author. I'd be amazed if anyone at all had complained to the university president about their sermon. "The complaining student" is now a trope along the lines of the cab driver who always speaks to New York Times columnists in a way that is convenient for their column.

Except, in this scenario, the cab driver is OKWU and the new york times is also OWKU. It's reasonable for OWKU to make this announcement. They are laying out their expectations for their student body. It is inconvenient but students who dislike their position are free to transfer. OWKU is a private institution and also a religious one (even greater protection). They are well within their means and rights. I'm startin…

I'm trying to understand what your comment has to do with mine, and failing. Did you mean to make this reply to some other comment?

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#296

Post by force_reboot »

Focus in safe spaces and crybaby students is very misguided. Anyone student can claim that they are victimized or feel "unsafe" for any reason, but these claims will be filtered through academics, media and the university administration, which will judge these claims based on a specific political ideology. Before there were "safe spaces", you could still fail a mandatory sociology class for disagreeing with feminism or anti-racism[0], or face disciplinary charges for the same reasons. And professors could be removed or disciplined for the same.

[0] by which I mean the narrative states that implicit racism is all around us.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#297

Post by wfo »

sago wrote: post #6

I think the world would be better if, before you're allowed to respond to someone being wrong, you have to first be able to express their position in a way that they agree represents their view. Because 'political correctness' isn't the cancer at the heart of social politics, it is straw-manning. On both sides of every issue. I'd be surprised, perhaps even amazed, if Dr Piper had represented the complaint in any way…

I suspect this was completely honest. You will not believe what comes out of the mouths of some of these students. Straw-manning is necessary; do you think either participant or the audience has the patience to sit and thoughtfully and carefully consider all sides of any issue in any debate? If that debate were publicized nobody would watch it. And it's a prisoner's dilemma. If you try to be respectful and thoughtful and the other person screams and yells and abuses and strawmans then you will lose the 'debate' by any metric not implemented by a philosophy professor. Look at the presedential debates. Nasty quips and attacks win, thoughtful consideration and long policy dialogue loses. It's not a coincidence.

This is a classic trap. Some positions are simply not worth discussing thoughtfully. Not all positions are equal. When you say "both sides" you have already lost; plenty of people use this tendancy to give both sides to every issue equal credence and carefully consider both, so they inject some absurd ridiculous view as the other side and abuse your tendancy to respect them to gain credence for it. Then the overton window is shifted and they have already won before the debate begins. If you even accept the premise that a student should be able to tell a professor what they are and are not allowed to discuss in their class you have already lost the debate, there's no use respecting that view, it's far too extreme.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#298

Post by VLM »

unprepare wrote: post #223
yummyfajitas wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually white heterosexual middle class males can totally appreciate these things. Imagine what it is like to be white/asian in a country where a disproportionate number of crimes are committed by black men and where black on white crimes are 5.6 times more common than white on black crimes [1]. Imagine what it is like to be Christian when a disproportionate number of terror attacks are committed by Islamic types. M…

From your link: >These data cover all violent crimes except murder, but the number of murders is tiny compared to other violent crimes. So, we've started by cherry picking our data, a really strong start. Next we go on by comparing apples and oranges. You've reached the conclusion that as a white male you should be afraid of black people, but the data you linked shows otherwise. While 13.7% of violent crimes against…

"People of any given race are much more likely to have a crime committed against them by someone of their own race, than by someone of any other race."

Is there a correction factor for housing and employment segregation? The analysis seems to rely on a large municipal area with overlapping cultures rather than the usual situation on the ground which is highly segregated for a variety of socioeconomic reasons.

So given that, it is extremely likely that, say, home domestic disturbances or workplace violence will be extremely highly correlated with victim and attacker having same race.

However whats behaviorally relevant is the totally different statistics of "I'm a X and I see a Y walking down a dark street toward me, how should I react based on X and Y crime statistics?"

"you must be 4 times more afraid everytime you see a"

That whole clause is a statistical error as the odds of becoming a victim of a X have a lot more to do with the odds of a given X being a criminal, than they do with relative ratios of X on Y violence vs Y on X violence. Outside of really weird situations like active race riots or race based protests or similar lawlessness.

There is the meta question of "how do I need to signal to others in public to remain politically correct" vs "how do I actually need to act to survive" and discouragingly that gulf has been widening over past years mostly by changes in required political signalling behavior despite a remarkable drop in actual crime rates. Or at least reported crime rates.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#299

Post by [deleted] »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #127
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm asian. I don't feel threatened by black crime when it's also shown that police target black people for arrest more than whites and that the system is often stacked against black people. I'm more uncomfortable that white males are shooting up schools in my country several times a year because there's nothing being done pointing this demographic out. Your experience doesn't reflect the experience of all others.

What gives you the right to invalidate my father's feelings? You don't understand his lived experience (he was present at a major Islamic terrorist attack) at all! I believe that's the standard social justice retort to your claims. Being a more logically minded person, I'll instead invert it; your retort to my comment is that one person in the aforementioned demographic (e.g. a white/asian male) doesn't agree with me…

[deleted]

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#300

Post by p0la »

DanBC wrote: post #116
p0la wrote: post #60

There is a lot of press about this "Yale problem" type of stories but I live in Europe where I find kids fearless and aggressive. I find this type of reasoning very hard to relate to. Do you feel this type of behaviour is affecting a majority of NA youth ? Or is it more media looking at what could be the very beggining of a trend ?

There's a few examples in some of the London universities. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11573646/... http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/goldsmiths-student-div...

Thanks for the links! Indeed I missed that :D But Goldsmiths is an art school, and I guess it's fine if artists and creative have a more developed sensitivity and require more conforting environment. In the case of the Yale issue, I understood that about 740 people from very different background signed an open letter... I feel it's very different than a handful of Union representant in an Art School.
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