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This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

okwu.edu

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Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#271

Post by darkerside »

lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

It would be great if the top comment were about the content of the article instead of the character of the institution.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#272

Post by Juliate »

philh wrote: post #180
Juliate wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pretty strongly disagree with that "because you're a bad person" too, if it were that. But what I read in the article is more "because you're not perfect, as neither one of us is, so show a little introspection about you before complaining about others". And... it's about 1 Corinthians 13. See https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+1... Seriously, go read it, it resonates in quite a peculiar way…

> An altar call is supposed to make you feel bad. It is supposed to make you feel guilty. Maybe that's not quite "you're a bad person". But I feel like your reading is missing the "you should feel bad" aspect. That chapter resonates with me too, because it's pretty much exactly the sentiment I'm disagreeing with. Supposedly it doesn't matter what you do , it matters what you feel . No, that's exactly wrong. If you do…

> Supposedly it doesn't matter what you do, it matters what you feel.

I think I see what you mean. But this is not how I read Corinthians; but I agree that this may not be shared either, and I won't make this about religion, I'm really talking about the text itself.

First, it does not put love before actions. It says actions/qualities (or that most of life, actually) is meaningless, nothing, without love (as an attachment to God/Truth)

Second, it defines what is definitely not "love", so one may not use it as a pretext for wrong doing (at least).

Third, it says that we will never see things fully, neither at once, until, that is, the end (provided it's not an ellipsis, he! :) ).

Plus, "love" as expressed in this text is not Philia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philia) but from Latin Caritas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charity_%28virtue%29) (or Greek "agape"); which is not about a feeling, but about something way deeper, transcendant and, although not quite the right word, respectful, for one to an other. It's love as one of the three Christian theological virtues (fides, spes, caritas), that is, in an intimate relation to the Christian God (in this context) as a guide, a goal, an ideal for love/Philia too.

> That love is genuine, and it doesn't redeem the action.

I see your point. That love is, actually, deeply misled. Actually, that's not love, that's fear that supersedes love ("I fear that you [x] and I don't want to because this makes me [y] and I freak out and I don't think you can decide for yourself, so I'll do it and [z]").

Love (be it eros, philia or even agape) is no excuse to abuse. Good intentions don't make an excuse for incompetence.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#273

Post by hnamazon123 »

maaku wrote: post #21
lagadu wrote: post #3

I find it baffling that there are people, in the real world, who somehow think that for unexplained reasons they have the right to not be offended or be made to feel uncomfortable. Somehow they believe that their feelings are the responsibility of everyone else.

While I sympathize with your viewpoint, perhaps I can shed some clarity on the other side. The concern is not feelings getting hurt, but rather physical security as a person of minority status. This is something that a white heterosexual middle-class male (such as myself) can probably never fully appreciate, but I try to sympathize. Imagine what it is like to be black in a country where just a few generations back yo…

As a Jew I can tell you that most of the physical danger I feel and, empirically, that Jews experience comes from politically correct liberals (especially Europeans) who whitewash and fail to acknowledge the danger of Muslims and Islam.

Political correctness has done a lot to harm Jews and is used as a tool of anti-semites to further their cause.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#274

Post by yummyfajitas »

unprepare wrote: post #223
yummyfajitas wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually white heterosexual middle class males can totally appreciate these things. Imagine what it is like to be white/asian in a country where a disproportionate number of crimes are committed by black men and where black on white crimes are 5.6 times more common than white on black crimes [1]. Imagine what it is like to be Christian when a disproportionate number of terror attacks are committed by Islamic types. M…

From your link: >These data cover all violent crimes except murder, but the number of murders is tiny compared to other violent crimes. So, we've started by cherry picking our data, a really strong start. Next we go on by comparing apples and oranges. You've reached the conclusion that as a white male you should be afraid of black people, but the data you linked shows otherwise. While 13.7% of violent crimes against…

The data source is the NCVS, a crime victimization survey. The reason is that we aren't relying on racist cops to tell us who the perpetrator is, we are just asking the victims. The survey methodology also allows us to detect unreported crimes.

One unfortunate drawback of the survey methodology is that you can't track murder.

You've reached the conclusion that as a white male you should be afraid of black people...

I've reached the conclusion that you didn't read my post. Try again. If you get confused, look for words like "completely irrational and entirely his problem".

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#275

Post by coldpie »

laotzu wrote: post #251
coldpie wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People in the real world will treat you like crap, no matter what. Why should we accept this?

Sincere question: why should you not accept it? >Any person capable of angering you becomes your master; he can anger you only when you permit yourself to be disturbed by him. -Epictetus To answer your question, we should accept it because that is the way reality is fundamentally. Go ahead and try to eternally fight to erase all darkness so that there is only light. Spoiler alert: it's impossible. If there were no da…

I sincerely believe our society would be improved if people could live how they want, provided they harm no one else. While I agree it's a lofty goal, I don't think we have to voluntarily shackle ourselves to a life of hard knocks.

> Go ahead and try to eternally fight to erase all darkness so that there is only light.

I will, thanks! Why do you think people try to impede me?

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#276

Post by fixermark »

ceejayoz wrote: post #144

1 Corinthians 13 is a pretty uncontroversial passage. Hell, it's a favorite of mine, and I'm an atheist. I'm a little curious about the actual complaint, and if Dr. Piper had any sort of productive discussion with the student. The standard "we're all sinners, but we must try" sort of thing seems the obvious starting approach.

In this particular instance, Dr. Piper may want to reference 1 Corinthians 14.

""" So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me. """

Dr. Piper has not reached this student, and I fear that his heavy-handed approach means he will not reach this student. Sad.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#277

Post by wfo »

aswanson wrote: post #78
sago wrote: post #6

I think the world would be better if, before you're allowed to respond to someone being wrong, you have to first be able to express their position in a way that they agree represents their view. Because 'political correctness' isn't the cancer at the heart of social politics, it is straw-manning. On both sides of every issue. I'd be surprised, perhaps even amazed, if Dr Piper had represented the complaint in any way…

Along those lines, I think formal debate should be required in secondary education, and students should be required to defend the position they disagree with.

In my experience "formal debate" (in the vein of forensics competitions, etc) is essentially heavy "research" in which you cherry pick any study or paper or blog you can find that supports your position and then spit out all those citiations as quickly as possible in an 8 minute 'speech' -- there's very little debating or discussion going on, just a war of citations which quickly shows all the participants that citations mean nothing -- no matter your view you can find plenty of "evidence" for it, it's an even playing field whether you're affirmative or negative after all.

So all in all like the real debate we see on television I suppose.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#278

Post by Caprinicus »

coldpie wrote: post #143
adventured wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact it's being very openly argued all over the place in US culture today. The recent famous video of the Yale professor that was trying to talk rationally to the irrational students around him - it was all about the students claiming they had a right to not be offended, and the notion that their feelings trumped freedom of speech.

Separately, please note that "freedom of speech" is a term which refers specifically to the government using force to prevent or compel speech from private citizens. In the context of university student conduct, I'm not aware of any law or court case which impinges on this freedom. Being expelled from a university for your conduct does not qualify as an infringement of your freedom of speech.

There is a difference between the legal right and the principle.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#280

Post by mavhc »

asift wrote: post #242
sago wrote: post #6

I think the world would be better if, before you're allowed to respond to someone being wrong, you have to first be able to express their position in a way that they agree represents their view. Because 'political correctness' isn't the cancer at the heart of social politics, it is straw-manning. On both sides of every issue. I'd be surprised, perhaps even amazed, if Dr Piper had represented the complaint in any way…

Because mobs like these are totally open to intellectual discourse and reason. If only the professor had done more to be courteous and empathize with the students' desired ends /s http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/the-new-... But to your point, passing the Ideological Turing Test is something that I think is worth aspiring to. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideological_Turing_Test

Not really helping your case by using the pro Hitler, pro killing gay babies, Daily Mail though.
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