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This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

okwu.edu

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Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#261

Post by moonchrome »

lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

I don't usually make quips about religion - but - you're baffled that a religious person ignores inconsistencies in their argument to establish moral superiority ?

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#262

Post by vdaniuk »

fixermark wrote: post #239
vdaniuk wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

University remains a place for adults who are not legally recognized as adults but are expected to fully act as adults. So consistent, much logic.

You're conflating a binary with a continuum. The dominant American culture is not one with a single consistently-applied rite of passage to adulthood. Over about a decade, people go though multiple transitions (age of majority, voting age, drinking age---heck, a lot of people even recognize the age at which rental car companies stop applying a "You're probably a dangerous driver" surcharge, at 25 years old).

Yes, adulthood is a continuum. That's why it's wrong to say that college is for "adults". Some of students are very immature, some have more wisdom than older people. So I am not disagreeing with your point of view.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#263

Post by dahart »

SeanDav wrote: post #92
sago wrote: post #6

I think the world would be better if, before you're allowed to respond to someone being wrong, you have to first be able to express their position in a way that they agree represents their view. Because 'political correctness' isn't the cancer at the heart of social politics, it is straw-manning. On both sides of every issue. I'd be surprised, perhaps even amazed, if Dr Piper had represented the complaint in any way…

A little research will produce a vast number of examples of political correctness with real consequences and not just "straw-manning". Here is a recent example: A Canadian university cancels a yoga class because yoga comes "from a culture that “experienced oppression, cultural genocide and diasporas due to colonialism and western supremacy,” In a world that can do that, I don't find it surprising that a student could…

What is the "real" consequence here? And is it still straw manning, in a sense, to make judgements based on an incomplete story, and jump to conclusions about someone else being wrong, without the whole story?

I don't know about the yoga class incident, but I don't automatically see the ridiculousness the rest in this sub thread appear to -- it seems pretty reasonable to me for a group of students to check their assumptions about what they're doing when they learn about something related in history. Yes yoga is now a trendy healthy way to stretch and exercise, and how could history have anything to say about stretching, but it does not seem silly to me to wonder out loud if yoga may have originated as a symbol of oppression or death, or of submission to it.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#264

Post by yummyfajitas »

ceejayoz wrote: post #206
yummyfajitas wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand - a white supremacist took a quantity from the DOJ, then took a percentage from the DOJ, and multiplied them together to get a new quantity. Does multiplication become invalid when a white supremacist does it? Or do DOJ stats become false when a racist cites them? Please, I would like to understand your logic. I do find it a bit scary that when I google "black on white crime", only racist sites sho…

You can turn raw statistics into all sorts of false, misleading, or incomplete conclusions. A white supremacist doing a statistical analysis isn't going to reach all that hard for stats that might contradict or weaken the conclusion they're trying for. If they find one accidentally, there's a pretty decent chance they'll "forget" to mention it. I'm no expert in the field, but I'd wonder about things like encounter ra…

Lets back up.

I claimed a white male might feel irrational fear of the disproportionately large number of black on white crimes, just as maaku claimed a black person might feel irrational fear of crimes that happened a few generations back.

I linked to a source showing that the number of black on white crimes is disproportionately large. Perhaps this white supremacist organization did make arithmetic errors when multiplying row 2 column 2 by row 2 column 5. Did they?

It's a bit surprising that with all this criticism, no one is actually claiming the number is wrong.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#265

Post by whatok »

lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

Really have no problem with this if they aren't receiving any government money but unfortunately they are.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#266

Post by coldpie »

forgottenpass wrote: post #233
coldpie wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Separately, please note that "freedom of speech" is a term which refers specifically to the government using force to prevent or compel speech from private citizens. In the context of university student conduct, I'm not aware of any law or court case which impinges on this freedom. Being expelled from a university for your conduct does not qualify as an infringement of your freedom of speech.

Freedom of speech is a generic concept. "The Freedom of Speech," the legal right defined by the constitution only applies to the government because the constitution only applies to the government.

Indeed, you are free to make your offensive speech. And I also have the freedom to tell you your speech makes me uncomfortable, and to convince those around me to do the same and shun you while you continue to speak it near us. Now both our freedoms of speech have been preserved and any appeal to "Freedom of Speech" is vacuous and we can never use the term again in this context. Great.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#267

Post by lghh »

kelukelugames wrote: post #252
intortus wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't matter. There's an anecdote about a student being a crybaby and that's the biggest threat facing humanity today. Get with the program. We can deal with the Christians once we sort out the safe spacers.

I recommend adding a /s tag. The other poster didn't catch the sarcasm.

Oh, it's sarcasm? I really didn't know. That's an opinion I see pretty much everywhere so I just assumed it was serious, haha.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#268

Post by cthalupa »

czep wrote: post #196
yummyfajitas wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually white heterosexual middle class males can totally appreciate these things. Imagine what it is like to be white/asian in a country where a disproportionate number of crimes are committed by black men and where black on white crimes are 5.6 times more common than white on black crimes [1]. Imagine what it is like to be Christian when a disproportionate number of terror attacks are committed by Islamic types. M…

You just cited a blog which has this on their About Us page: "If whites permit themselves to become a minority population, they will lose their civilization, their heritage, and even their existence as a distinct people." Instead of allowing your father to fear for his and your safety based on his irrational and bigoted views, perhaps you could educate him not to accept data from fringe sources. Your reproduction of…

This is a logical fallacy that is unfortunately rampant on here. It's an ad hominem - the source may be a bunch of shitty people, but if we're arguing that we shouldn't accept something, attack the actual content of the message.

It's generally quite easy to do so when the source of information is biased, so dismantle the message if you want to argue about how it's incorrect.

It looks like these numbers posted were very low effort and lacking any real context whatsoever, so it shouldn't be too hard to rebut them.

Edit: In fact, unprepare does so quite well in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10655743

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#269

Post by forgottenpass »

vdaniuk wrote: post #138
Juliate wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that people's feelings should come first (especially before truth/understanding of reality) is not uncomfortable, but a dangerous, misleading, childish posture. University is for adults, not toddlers.

>University is for adults, not toddlers. Oh really, so university students are able to consume alcohol, right? edit: noun: adult; - a person who is fully grown or developed. - a person who has reached the age of majority. edit 2: "Longitudinal neuroimaging studies demonstrate that the adolescent brain continues to mature well into the 20s. This has prompted intense interest in linking neuromaturation to maturity of j…

I don't get your point. The (US) drinking age is not tied to the age of majority or most other societal indicators of "adulthood."

Unless your post means to say we should probably drop the drinking age. I'd agree it's pinned higher than maturity curve of youths, and personally find the illegality to encourage a debauched form of underage drinking. But I don't really see how that's here or there.

re, your edit: Are you saying that by some developmental model 17 year olds should not be asked to rise to the standards of behaviour expected of adults? Please elaborate.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#270

Post by dragonwriter »

HelloNurse wrote: post #161
EthanHeilman wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Exactly, I don't get why people are trying to make universities, workplaces, clubs, or anywhere else "safe places". I'm not directly disagreeing with you here or putting words in your mouth. I realize you are not saying safe spaces should not exist. Instead I want to make the argument that having safe spaces is reasonable. People make safe spaces _within_ universities and other institutions for the same reason some…

There is a big difference between having a problem with fireworks and having a problem with religion, like in the OP. Asking for a "safe space" where you don't have to deal with your conscience is horribly absurd.

> Asking for a "safe space" where you don't have to deal with your conscience is horribly absurd.

Asking for safe space where you don't have to worry about others trying to manipulate your conscience, OTOH, is not unreasonable.

At the same time, expecting formal services at the on-campus chapel of what is overtly an evangelical Christian university to be that safe space is somewhat unreasonable.

(Which is not to say that Dr. Piper's letter is itself a reasonable response to the scenario it describes.)

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