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This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

okwu.edu

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Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#101

Post by saturdaysaint »

whatok wrote: post #64
maaku wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I sympathize with your viewpoint, perhaps I can shed some clarity on the other side. The concern is not feelings getting hurt, but rather physical security as a person of minority status. This is something that a white heterosexual middle-class male (such as myself) can probably never fully appreciate, but I try to sympathize. Imagine what it is like to be black in a country where just a few generations back yo…

Why has all the hyper-sensitivity only come to the forefront over the past few years then?

Like other rises in sensitivity, technology. Ever-present smartphone cameras (and, more recently, police cameras) have made violent attacks on black men real and visceral. And social media has made reports of violence (even without video)that would have been buried in papers much easier to find - such as Charles Blow's son getting (mistakenly) apprehended at gunpoint on Yale's campus by campus police. Much like color news broadcasts made the carnage in Vietnam less palatable than past wars, and the broadcasts of the violence against Selma protesters created a swell of support for the civil rights movement, technology expands our circle of those we perceive as connected to us.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#102

Post by d_theorist »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #88
d_theorist wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is proposing that these people should be silenced, or not allowed to express the view. We are just saying that their view is wrong, and childish, and a danger to civilisation.

I think it's an exaggeration to say that someone's view is dangerous to civilization.

Not one person. It's a prevailing attitude. And the idea that we should renounce freedom of speech in order to prevent hurt feelings - if it ever gains legal force - absolutely is a danger to civilisation.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#103

Post by jerf »

icebraining wrote: post #27

Yet another post for HN to one-up each other decrying the "PC culture" with plenty of "kids these days" rants, while completely avoiding taking the charitable position and putting ourselves in their shoes. The amount of hypocrisy that comes with the claims that these students should "learn to cope with uncomfortable ideas" is staggering. Guess what: these students are presenting us with an "uncomfortable idea" and th…

I appreciate the attempt to perform judo on this debate, but "the uncomfortable idea that it is my obligation to make sure they are comfortable" is not amenable to that treatment. They're still trying to assert that all discomfort needs to be localized in not-them, and that it's everybody else's job to carry the discomfort the world has so they are protected from it.

If this were naturally a world where all ideas were comfortable except for the influence of a few bad apples, it might not be a problem, but since the world does contain uncomfortable facts, opinions, and people in abundance, they're basically demanding that everybody else shoulder the burdens.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#104

Post by Juliate »

philh wrote: post #56

This seems to be thrusting in two directions. One about trigger warnings and safe spaces and so on, and one about sermons and guilt. One common narrative re safe spaces seems to be: "if something makes you uncomfortable, you should suck it up instead of trying to force everyone else to accommodate you". I think this is somewhat missing the point, but I can relate to it. I feel like this is the dominant narrative in t…

I pretty strongly disagree with that "because you're a bad person" too, if it were that.

But what I read in the article is more "because you're not perfect, as neither one of us is, so show a little introspection about you before complaining about others".

And... it's about 1 Corinthians 13. See https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+1... Seriously, go read it, it resonates in quite a peculiar way with this whole discussion.

(edited for missing word)

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#105

Post by [deleted] »

pitt1980 wrote: post #59
rayiner wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, at least allegedly, real conduct that was, among other things, the reason those Yale students were angry: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/11/0... . Something real is by definition not a straw man.

let's be concrete about what we're talking about ------------------ from your link: "A fraternity brother who was at the party gave an entirely different account than Petros-Gouin. Speaking on condition that his name not be used because chapter rules discourage speaking to the media, he said members of the house always ask for Yale IDs and let everyone in until a party gets crowded. After that, a line forms. That nig…

[deleted]

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#106

Post by ap22213 »

I call B.S.

I looked up this "1 Corinthians 13", and I have severe doubts that a "student came forward ... feeling uncomfortable" about this homily. By itself, I have doubts. But, the fact that a president of a university would call out a student on something like that? I severely doubt that this event had even happened.

It's easy to conjure up a unknown stranger to fit some stereotype that one wants to call out as a straw man. This is a pretty common (and shady) tactic.

More likely, this is just political propaganda. Or maybe C.Y.A.?

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#107

Post by DanBC »

ucaetano wrote: post #12

"Oklahoma Wesleyan is not a “safe place”, but rather, a place to learn" Exactly, I don't get why people are trying to make universities, workplaces, clubs, or anywhere else "safe places". They should not be safe places, they should be places where you feel confronted, challenged and threatened by different ideas and points of view.

> they should be places where you feel confronted, challenged and threatened by different ideas and points of view.

That's a lot easier to say when you're not much more likely to be a victim of violent crime, or of sexual violence, or of racist violence.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#108

Post by SolaceQuantum »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #83
maaku wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I sympathize with your viewpoint, perhaps I can shed some clarity on the other side. The concern is not feelings getting hurt, but rather physical security as a person of minority status. This is something that a white heterosexual middle-class male (such as myself) can probably never fully appreciate, but I try to sympathize. Imagine what it is like to be black in a country where just a few generations back yo…

Actually white heterosexual middle class males can totally appreciate these things. Imagine what it is like to be white/asian in a country where a disproportionate number of crimes are committed by black men and where black on white crimes are 5.6 times more common than white on black crimes [1]. Imagine what it is like to be Christian when a disproportionate number of terror attacks are committed by Islamic types. M…

I'm asian. I don't feel threatened by black crime when it's also shown that police target black people for arrest more than whites and that the system is often stacked against black people. I'm more uncomfortable that white males are shooting up schools in my country several times a year because there's nothing being done pointing this demographic out.

Your experience doesn't reflect the experience of all others.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#109

Post by ucaetano »

pjc50 wrote: post #57
ucaetano wrote: post #12

"Oklahoma Wesleyan is not a “safe place”, but rather, a place to learn" Exactly, I don't get why people are trying to make universities, workplaces, clubs, or anywhere else "safe places". They should not be safe places, they should be places where you feel confronted, challenged and threatened by different ideas and points of view.

The opposite of "safe" is "risky". If we're responsible, we do a risk assessment. So, if a place is not safe, what sort of risks does it contain, who is exposed to them, and what mitigation can be put in place.

This reminds me of a quote from one of my favorite books: "Living is a dangerous business".

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#110

Post by jerf »

coldpie wrote: post #82
Juliate wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that people's feelings should come first (especially before truth/understanding of reality) is not uncomfortable, but a dangerous, misleading, childish posture. University is for adults, not toddlers.

> The idea that people's feelings should come first, especially before truth/understanding of reality No one is arguing for this.

Yes, they are.

As soon as you claim they are, they scurry away claiming that's not what they mean, but as soon as you say "OK then" and move on, they turn right around and it's all about their feelings again. It is very much a part of the modern PC platform that if someone "feels" assaulted, they are, and you must believe them or you are blaming the victim. This is why accusations are as good as conviction in places where PC reigns supreme, because the fact of accusation is itself proof of feeling, and that's it, case closed.

Don't fall for this transparent rhetorical ploy. Arguments that only appear transiently to dismiss one point, then disappear into the ether immediately after, are not arguments, just rhetoric. (This is a general point that applies in many places, actually.)

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