Mozilla Wants To Split Off Its Thunderbird Email/Chat Client • Hacker News Board

Re: Mozilla Wants To Split Off Its Thunderbird Email/Chat Client

#41

Post by bad_user » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 1:37 PM UTC

crististm wrote: post #31

bad_user wrote: post #5

Thunderbird is still being actively developed by the community. I'm on version 42 beta and it's looking good. This is what open source is about. It doesn't matter if the parent no longer wants to maintain it. As long as there is interest, the product survives.

You've been brainwashed about the "community" stuff. Mozilla _is_ a corporation. Linux is built by a corporation. Last time I checked, less than 18% of Linux patches were from independent contributors. Everything big enough to be known by Joe average hobbyist is built by a corporation. Let's see the community in action taking the lead when Mozilla drops the ball.

Not sure what you're implying. Mozilla stopped developing Thunderbird since 2012. I would also be curios in what corporation (singular) is developing Linux.

Re: Mozilla Wants To Split Off Its Thunderbird Email/Chat Client

#42

Post by salex89 » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 1:38 PM UTC

It is a shame... But I am much more irritated, lacking a better term, with the chronicall lacking of a proper mail client for Linux. Thunderbird is the best as far as I used them, but I am not satisfied with the performance, UK and features, especially considering Windows only counterparts.

Re: Mozilla Wants To Split Off Its Thunderbird Email/Chat Client

#43

Post by mark_l_watson » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 1:39 PM UTC

I still use Thunderbird on a Linux laptop, will continue to do so, but think that this is a good decision.

I donate a bit of money to Mozilla occasionally and I would like to see their effort go to working on privacy and Firefox.

Re: Mozilla Wants To Split Off Its Thunderbird Email/Chat Client

#44

Post by jonathonf » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 1:42 PM UTC

toyg wrote: post #22

betteringred wrote: post #17

They want to kill XUL for Firefox so they can be all fancy HTML. So they have to kill Thunderbird, a XUL app. In a few years the all new HTML Firefox will come out. My bet is that it will suck. It will lack a TON of features that the existing Firefox has, but hey, it's all HTML! And you won't be able to stick on the old one, because within a week or two some critical security flaw will be discovered and eventually (l…

It happened before, with the transition from Mozilla Suite to Firefox. And let's be honest: XUL was just lipstick on the pig that is cross-platform development. HTML/CSS/JS are now fast enough to look like a slightly better pig, so here we go. Also, there's a generational shift underway. You and me could find crazy that people would openly choose to use IDEs built on HTML/CSS/JS, but that's what a lot of young folks…

> You and me could find crazy that people would openly choose to use IDEs built on HTML/CSS/JS, but that's what a lot of young folks are doing (Atom, VSCode etc etc). That's their world, that's what they like. An entire generation now exists, who learnt to code from web scripting rather than C or BASIC. They have taken over. It's just how it is.

They could still be doing it wrong.

Re: Mozilla Wants To Split Off Its Thunderbird Email/Chat Client

#45

Post by ZenoArrow » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 1:43 PM UTC

crististm wrote: post #31

bad_user wrote: post #5

Thunderbird is still being actively developed by the community. I'm on version 42 beta and it's looking good. This is what open source is about. It doesn't matter if the parent no longer wants to maintain it. As long as there is interest, the product survives.

You've been brainwashed about the "community" stuff. Mozilla _is_ a corporation. Linux is built by a corporation. Last time I checked, less than 18% of Linux patches were from independent contributors. Everything big enough to be known by Joe average hobbyist is built by a corporation. Let's see the community in action taking the lead when Mozilla drops the ball.

What features are you missing from Thunderbird?

Re: Mozilla Wants To Split Off Its Thunderbird Email/Chat Client

#46

Post by chillingeffect » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 1:44 PM UTC

betteringred wrote: post #17

They want to kill XUL for Firefox so they can be all fancy HTML. So they have to kill Thunderbird, a XUL app. In a few years the all new HTML Firefox will come out. My bet is that it will suck. It will lack a TON of features that the existing Firefox has, but hey, it's all HTML! And you won't be able to stick on the old one, because within a week or two some critical security flaw will be discovered and eventually (l…

> But hey, donate to Mozilla! $5, $15, $25,

Ah yes, thank you for the reminder!

http://imgur.com/hLZp8SG

Now that I actually have a career and money I have no problem giving back. I'm glad I can donate to Ubuntu and Wikipedia nowadays. I am grateful for everything Firefox has given me for well over 10 years...

I really don't know what XUL is (intermediate language between HTML and FF UI?), but I guess I do feel sorry for people who have been using Thunderbird. I hope it's significant enough a property that people will want to continue, write it in Rust?

Re: Mozilla Wants To Split Off Its Thunderbird Email/Chat Client

#47

Post by cubano » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 1:44 PM UTC

creshal wrote: post #34

toyg wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It happened before, with the transition from Mozilla Suite to Firefox. And let's be honest: XUL was just lipstick on the pig that is cross-platform development. HTML/CSS/JS are now fast enough to look like a slightly better pig, so here we go. Also, there's a generational shift underway. You and me could find crazy that people would openly choose to use IDEs built on HTML/CSS/JS, but that's what a lot of young folks…

> You and me could find crazy that people would openly choose to use IDEs built on HTML/CSS/JS, but that's what a lot of young folks are doing I'm 25 and I feel to old for this industry already.

Stick around for another 25 like I have...the fun is just starting!

Re: Mozilla Wants To Split Off Its Thunderbird Email/Chat Client

#48

Post by crististm » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 1:47 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #41

crististm wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've been brainwashed about the "community" stuff. Mozilla _is_ a corporation. Linux is built by a corporation. Last time I checked, less than 18% of Linux patches were from independent contributors. Everything big enough to be known by Joe average hobbyist is built by a corporation. Let's see the community in action taking the lead when Mozilla drops the ball.

Not sure what you're implying. Mozilla stopped developing Thunderbird since 2012. I would also be curios in what corporation (singular) is developing Linux.

I'm implying that "open source-ness" is not necessarily _the_ ingredient that will save a massive abandoned project. You need also 'drive' - and good hackers are put of by massive corporate projects. They have better things to do than clean up corporate mess.

Re: Mozilla Wants To Split Off Its Thunderbird Email/Chat Client

#49

Post by toyg » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 1:48 PM UTC

jonathonf wrote: post #44

toyg wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It happened before, with the transition from Mozilla Suite to Firefox. And let's be honest: XUL was just lipstick on the pig that is cross-platform development. HTML/CSS/JS are now fast enough to look like a slightly better pig, so here we go. Also, there's a generational shift underway. You and me could find crazy that people would openly choose to use IDEs built on HTML/CSS/JS, but that's what a lot of young folks…

> You and me could find crazy that people would openly choose to use IDEs built on HTML/CSS/JS, but that's what a lot of young folks are doing (Atom, VSCode etc etc). That's their world, that's what they like. An entire generation now exists, who learnt to code from web scripting rather than C or BASIC. They have taken over. It's just how it is. They could still be doing it wrong.

Dude, you're likely typing on the "wrong" keyboard layout and use a "wrong" calendar... convention trumps correctness pretty much all the time. What matters is that enough people are doing it to make it "the way". I fully expect that we will eventually see a Javascript OS, because "it's so much easier to maintain".

Re: Mozilla Wants To Split Off Its Thunderbird Email/Chat Client

#50

Post by betteringred » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 1:48 PM UTC

ZenoArrow wrote: post #26

betteringred wrote: post #17

They want to kill XUL for Firefox so they can be all fancy HTML. So they have to kill Thunderbird, a XUL app. In a few years the all new HTML Firefox will come out. My bet is that it will suck. It will lack a TON of features that the existing Firefox has, but hey, it's all HTML! And you won't be able to stick on the old one, because within a week or two some critical security flaw will be discovered and eventually (l…

> " When you take an app that's been worked on for 15 or so years and then replace it's UI you're going to lose a TON of features. " What makes you think they'll drop XUL as soon as the first release of the HTML-based UI? It's pretty obvious they'd want to support both until the HTML UI was close to feature complete. You're finding problems where there aren't any.

Have you ever met a team that wants to support two things instead of one? :) No one wants to support the old stuff, especially when no one's paying for it. If they make staying with the old too convenient, people won't convert to the crappy new, and their adoption graphs will suck! Can't have cannibalism!