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This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

okwu.edu

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Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#31

Post by stefantalpalaru »

iokevins wrote: post #4

Per Wikipedia, Oklahoma Wesleyan University serves about 900 students and is an evangelical Christian university of the Wesleyan Church located in Bartlesville, in the U.S. state of Oklahoma. Their motto is "A university where Jesus is Lord." In this article, conservative OKWU president Dr. Everett Piper seems to dismiss the concerns of one student, calling for more sermons full of guilt and shame, as a tool to get c…

That says a lot about the US zeitgeist. The only one brave enough to call a spade a spade is an untouchable evangelical president from a tiny university.

You live in fear, and some of you think that fear is good, as long as it protects those that don't want to grow up. I hope this convinces more valuable students to come study in Europe. It's about time for the brain drain to reverse its course.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#32

Post by rlpb »

"As an evangelical Christian university of The Wesleyan Church, Oklahoma Wesleyan University models a way of thought, a way of life, and a way of faith. It is a place of serious study, honest questions, and critical engagement, all in the context of a liberal arts community that honors the Primacy of Jesus Christ, the Priority of Scripture, the Pursuit of Truth, and the Practice of Wisdom."

This sounds to me more like a church than a University.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#33

Post by rayiner »

jorgeleo wrote: post #28
rayiner wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a strawman. Even the folks screaming at their residence hall master at Yale didn't assert an abstract "right not to be offended." Their beef was about an institution they pay money to not doing enough to police the conduct of other members of that institution. What's equally baffling is Ivy-league frat boys thinking that "free speech" entitles them to engage in conduct that would get them summarily booted out…

The REAL strawman is: "What's equally baffling is Ivy-league frat boys thinking that "free speech" entitles them to engage in conduct that would get them summarily booted out in the real world."

It is, at least allegedly, real conduct that was, among other things, the reason those Yale students were angry: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/11/0.... Something real is by definition not a straw man.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#34

Post by jorgeleo »

HillRat wrote: post #26
ucaetano wrote: post #12

"Oklahoma Wesleyan is not a “safe place”, but rather, a place to learn" Exactly, I don't get why people are trying to make universities, workplaces, clubs, or anywhere else "safe places". They should not be safe places, they should be places where you feel confronted, challenged and threatened by different ideas and points of view.

While I agree with your fundamental point, I'm pretty sure that Everett Piper's Oklahoma Wesleyan is a very safe space for a particular kind of hard-shell evangelical. You don't go to that kind of school to be "confronted, challenged and threatened," but to have your worldview confirmed.

That will means that there is 1 single theological theory, because then everybody that goes there will have their worldview confirmed since there is only one. Unfortunately, looks like it is also what the student in the article expected.

My experience shows me that there are as many theological points of view as believers. Everybody gets their own personal variety.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#35

Post by d_theorist »

maaku wrote: post #21
lagadu wrote: post #3

I find it baffling that there are people, in the real world, who somehow think that for unexplained reasons they have the right to not be offended or be made to feel uncomfortable. Somehow they believe that their feelings are the responsibility of everyone else.

While I sympathize with your viewpoint, perhaps I can shed some clarity on the other side. The concern is not feelings getting hurt, but rather physical security as a person of minority status. This is something that a white heterosexual middle-class male (such as myself) can probably never fully appreciate, but I try to sympathize. Imagine what it is like to be black in a country where just a few generations back yo…

What do you mean by "The concern"? What concern? The author's concern is about students complaining that they oughtn't to have their feelings hurt. I am sure that there are many other concerns out there - including physical safety - but I don't think they have anything to do with the concern raised by the OP.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#36

Post by Juliate »

icebraining wrote: post #27

Yet another post for HN to one-up each other decrying the "PC culture" with plenty of "kids these days" rants, while completely avoiding taking the charitable position and putting ourselves in their shoes. The amount of hypocrisy that comes with the claims that these students should "learn to cope with uncomfortable ideas" is staggering. Guess what: these students are presenting us with an "uncomfortable idea" and th…

The idea that people's feelings should come first (especially before truth/understanding of reality) is not uncomfortable, but a dangerous, misleading, childish posture.

University is for adults, not toddlers.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#37

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

lagadu wrote: post #3

I find it baffling that there are people, in the real world, who somehow think that for unexplained reasons they have the right to not be offended or be made to feel uncomfortable. Somehow they believe that their feelings are the responsibility of everyone else.

Dr Piper's other public statements show that's very uncomfortable about and offended by many things - not least of which is majority support for gay marriage. Or any kind of homosexuality at all.

He's so incredibly uncomfortable with both he'd rather they simply didn't exist.

I have very little patience with anyone who runs the kind of moral racket that Dr Piper runs - which is making a career out of pretending to be a moral examplar by relying on appeal-to-authority and a lot of noisy rhetoric, and using both to justify social privilege for his beliefs.

I don't care if they're religious types, economists, or any other kind of ideologues. In my world their opinions get no respect at all.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#38

Post by stefantalpalaru »

icebraining wrote: post #27

Yet another post for HN to one-up each other decrying the "PC culture" with plenty of "kids these days" rants, while completely avoiding taking the charitable position and putting ourselves in their shoes. The amount of hypocrisy that comes with the claims that these students should "learn to cope with uncomfortable ideas" is staggering. Guess what: these students are presenting us with an "uncomfortable idea" and th…

> taking the charitable position

Also known as "wishful thinking". There's no room for charity when reason is called upon. Be as charitable as you want when talking about the weather with your neighbor, but when you're debating something serious you can not look for imaginary excuses for your opponent's mistakes.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#39

Post by jmcmichael »

We treat our universities like sanctuaries of learning, and the best ones shield their students from many of the uncertainties and dangers of life while they (ideally) spend their time learning to be valuable members of society.

Some of the cries of victimization sound way overblown. I would agree that shutting down the process of learning itself, such as when students attempt to stop professors or others from topical intellectual discussions, runs counter to the primary goal of universities.

However, many of the attacks on these students as a group looks like attempts to de-legitimize the victims of racism and bigotry. The minorities who have been revealing systemic bias, bigotry, and racism at these universities are the students who started and sustain the current protests.

Do not conflate the cause of those fighting against campus racism, bigotry, and bias with those who seek to shut down the the process of learning at the sign of the tiniest challenging or upsetting idea. The core group of protestors desire to be accorded the same protections and positive learning environment that white students have. That some have used this movement as a vehicle for lending power to their own neuroses and anxieties should not in any way detract from us from paying attention and doing something about the systemic bias that these protests and subsequent reports have revealed.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#40

Post by maze-le »

HillRat wrote: post #26
ucaetano wrote: post #12

"Oklahoma Wesleyan is not a “safe place”, but rather, a place to learn" Exactly, I don't get why people are trying to make universities, workplaces, clubs, or anywhere else "safe places". They should not be safe places, they should be places where you feel confronted, challenged and threatened by different ideas and points of view.

While I agree with your fundamental point, I'm pretty sure that Everett Piper's Oklahoma Wesleyan is a very safe space for a particular kind of hard-shell evangelical. You don't go to that kind of school to be "confronted, challenged and threatened," but to have your worldview confirmed.

Yeah, its kind of sad isn't it. It takes right-wing fundamentalist christians to point that out, because the so called "liberals" have lost their ability to understand and respond to critique.
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