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A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

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Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#131

Post by nitrogen »

karmacondon wrote: post #122
raquo wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There might be plenty of reasons why we don't know of such instances. For example, those being blackmailed might not know or have any proof that it's FBI who's blackmailing them. The FBI of course has endless opportunities of plausible deniability, starting with "rogue contractor". It all boils down to incentives: what exactly do you have to win from disclosing? What is the chance that people will believe you given t…

It's difficult for the FBI to use mass surveillance techniques to blackmail anybody. Sure they can make allegations, even true ones, but if they present evidence it would be pretty clear where it came from. Only so many entities have the ability to gather the kind of data necessary to separate fact from rumor. In terms of incentives, blackmail is generally a lower tier crime in terms of likelihood of success. Think a…

Suppose the blackmail is against not the politician, but someone they care about more than themselves? Suppose it's not blackmail per se, but the use of the same information for more sinister threats. Does the risk of giving the FBI/others all of everyone's private data still seem acceptable?

I'm not taking a concrete position on the question, but given the secrets that plain ordinary people keep, I would not be surprised if the data available on people is used for coercion and nobody talks about it.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#132

Post by ttctciyf »

tptacek wrote: post #97
mistermann wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It boggles my mind that post-Snowden people still think it's not possible for people to keep quiet about such things, I mean even Apple is able to maintain an enormous amount of privacy of things going on behind closed doors, the idea that one single person being blackmailed and not saying anything about it is difficult to believe.....I dunno.

What did Snowden change about any of this? The programs Snowden revealed were so well-known --- many of them having been reported in the press prior to Snowden's leaks --- that you can find them alluded to in the first edition of Applied Cryptography, back in the 1990s. Were you surprised by the Snowden leaks? Even after AT&T and Room 641a?

I think the change was that after the leaks the existence of the programs was incontrovertible - while many with an interest in the topic would have asserted their existence, they could not be discussed in a meaningful way in large-circulation media because dismissing assertions of their existence as 'amusing and dramatic" or "conspiracy theorizing" was always going to be the safer editorial position. After Snowden, that isn't really possible without looking a little foolish.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#133

Post by golergka »

1) Journalists say that the identity of the FBI's target imply the abuse of power

2) Ten years later, all legal restrictions are removed

3) The identity of the person, which was supposed to prove that FBI's actions were abuse of power, is still not released

Why?

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#134

Post by kobayashi »

tptacek wrote: post #29
jamoes wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail? My suspicion is that the FBI and various three-letter-agencies have dirt on most of the elected representatives. The mass surveillance apparatus is the perfect tool for collecting blackmail material on current and future leaders.

That is certainly the most amusing and dramatic explanation of what's happening. A simpler explanation might just be that Congress broadly supports what DOJ is doing, and cares a lot less about the integrity of specific online services than they do about DOJ's role in combating terrorism, nuclear proliferation, and foreign intelligence services.

Saw a level-headed response in a privacy and surveillance thread. Of course it's tptacek.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#135

Post by ionised »

arca_vorago wrote: post #118
peteretep wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ACLU, EFF and NRA I consider my neighbour being able to own an assault rifle as an encroachment of my civil liberties.

Well it's a good thing we beat you brits in the war and have a superior constitution that protects our rights to bear arms. Speaking of the original subject, wasn't it some despotic king of yours that formed the star court in the first place? Am I going crazy or is LaRouche seeming a bit less crazy these days?

The French beat the British for the US actually, because it was in their interests to have Britain lose their hold on the North American colonies. Without French support the American colonists would not have been able to maintain a prolonged resistance against Britain.

At the same time, Britain's main forces were across the other side of the world, fighting battles that were more important to them at the time. They were a superpower with global concerns.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#136

Post by ionised »

peteretep wrote: post #81
Estragon wrote: post #64

The only plausible presidential candidate who'll put a stop to these kinds of abuses is Bernie Sanders. Be sure to vote for him in your Democratic Primary.

If you don't think Clinton has the desire for privacy burned deeply in to her core, you haven't been following the news.

Her own privacy.

Pretty sure she doesn't give a shit about the privacy of the average schmo in the street.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#137

Post by ibejoeb »

tptacek wrote: post #29
jamoes wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail? My suspicion is that the FBI and various three-letter-agencies have dirt on most of the elected representatives. The mass surveillance apparatus is the perfect tool for collecting blackmail material on current and future leaders.

That is certainly the most amusing and dramatic explanation of what's happening. A simpler explanation might just be that Congress broadly supports what DOJ is doing, and cares a lot less about the integrity of specific online services than they do about DOJ's role in combating terrorism, nuclear proliferation, and foreign intelligence services.

Hang on a sec before dismissing this notion: this is precisely how Petraeus fell.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#138

Post by RankingMember »

lambda wrote: post #11
RankingMember wrote: post #4

I was hoping to see the item they show screenshotted in various states of redaction, but I don't see any link to it. Anyone see one?

https://www.aclu.org/legal-document/merrill-v-lynch-unredact...

I meant the other one that they showed screenshots of in various states of redaction.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#139

Post by jacquesm »

plorg wrote: post #110
jacquesm wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have absolutely no clue. But that's a weird one, especially since it never resulted in any kind of fall-out either way. You'd take that those accusations would not be left to stand without a solid rebuttal.

...unless they were very obviously made up and the person making them of little public importance, in which case it would probably be more damaging to even acknowledge them as being worth discussion.

That was testimony under oath. If it was false testimony the penalties would be grave which somewhat reduces the chances of it being 'obviously made up'.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#140

Post by jacquesm »

tptacek wrote: post #85
jacquesm wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're apparently putting people in jail for their intentions then definitely, intentions matter when the situation is the reverse as well. The guy tried to make a stand, messed up under pressure (and who here would dare to say they would not, I'm pretty steadfast but when that sort of power is aimed directly at you and your small company it takes some serious mental fortitude to even consider rejecting the request…

Hold on, don't move the goalposts. Levison did not design Lavabit under pressure from the DOJ. He had years to work on the design, the precedent of Hushmail to work from, and, let's be clear: until the DOJ requested documents that violated his own political leanings, he was compliant with other DOJ requests.

> until the DOJ requested documents that violated his own political leanings, he was compliant with other DOJ requests.

And that's his mistake. He should not have cared at all about which users the DOJ wanted info about, he should have realized that if he was capable of complying with their demands at all that his system should be fixed rather than kept that way.

I can see how this happens though. Imagine your average TOR exit node operator. This person may have noble intentions and dreams about supporting dissidents. Then finds out the exit node is used to peddle all kinds of gore. The temptation to become involved in determining what is and what is not supported use of 'your' exit node must be tremendously strong. Especially if some of that traffic is personally revolting, offensive or in some other way against your own personal philosophies.

So Levison may have thought that doing his bit, aiding the DOJ and purposefully having these holes was a net positive for society. But looking back I think he'd be the first to agree that that was a very bad mistake.

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