Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

aclu.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 157 posts

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#101

Post by awqrre »

tptacek wrote: post #29
jamoes wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail? My suspicion is that the FBI and various three-letter-agencies have dirt on most of the elected representatives. The mass surveillance apparatus is the perfect tool for collecting blackmail material on current and future leaders.

That is certainly the most amusing and dramatic explanation of what's happening. A simpler explanation might just be that Congress broadly supports what DOJ is doing, and cares a lot less about the integrity of specific online services than they do about DOJ's role in combating terrorism, nuclear proliferation, and foreign intelligence services.

It's surprising that some people still think that terrorism prevention is a true priority.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#102

Post by tptacek »

awqrre wrote: post #101
tptacek wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is certainly the most amusing and dramatic explanation of what's happening. A simpler explanation might just be that Congress broadly supports what DOJ is doing, and cares a lot less about the integrity of specific online services than they do about DOJ's role in combating terrorism, nuclear proliferation, and foreign intelligence services.

It's surprising that some people still think that terrorism prevention is a true priority.

I don't think that. I think DOJ and NSAs true priority is "maximize headcount".

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#103

Post by pdkl95 »

msabalau wrote: post #89
pdkl95 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN readers in particular should consider how technology has affected an important part of J. Edgar Hoover's political extortion: COINTELPRO[1]. Technology has made it a lot easier to discredit and disrupt political activists. An obvious example of how to map relationships to find potential organizers that might bring together a larger political movement is the NSA programs COTRAVELER[2], but the methods are not that…

If people in power were terrified of Occupy, recent history has shown that they have had absolutely no reason to be. Consensus decision making has hamstrung progressive causes since the 70s ( http://berkeleyjournal.org/2015/05/the-theology-of-consensus... ), predating the technological toolkit which nominally justified not having a targetable leadership. It is right, fitting, and appropriate to consider how governmen…

So it is your assertion that technology is NOT making it easier to target people?

> 70s

Yes, I'm familiar with history. This is somewhat off topic.

> unbalanced

Insults? Really?

> fundamentally disrespectful

I never made the comparison to lynchings/etc. If anything, modern technology has made these tactics safer. Really, this was my point - you are thinking about tactics as they were used decades ago. You might want to actually read those JTRIG links, as they describe a very different sort of tactic.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#104

Post by darkmarmot »

tptacek wrote: post #86
wfo wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such a villian, in fact, that a huge building in DC bears his name in order to honor him. The building that houses the very organization we are discussing in fact. Whose employees walk past his plaque and honorifics every day, witnessing a great work done by their colleagues for the sole purpose of giving him his due respect. I think things are certainly not as bad as when the FBI was literally commanded (founded, re…

There are also statues of Jefferson Davis in the south, and buildings at our greatest universities named after John C. Calhoun. That doesn't mean we endorse those people.

Umm, it kind of does.

As someone who lives in the south, it's nice to see things such as the confederate flags _finally_ getting removed.

A large statue of Nathan Bedford Forrest, master military tactician and a founder of the KKK, stands tall over I-65 nearby. It probably would be removed if it was not privately-owned.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#105

Post by pdkl95 »

tptacek wrote: post #102
awqrre wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's surprising that some people still think that terrorism prevention is a true priority.

I don't think that. I think DOJ and NSAs true priority is "maximize headcount".

Nobody claimed that. There are many different priorities the DOJ and NSA may have besides "terrorism prevention" and "maximize headcount".

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#106

Post by CWuestefeld »

tptacek wrote: post #102
awqrre wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's surprising that some people still think that terrorism prevention is a true priority.

I don't think that. I think DOJ and NSAs true priority is "maximize headcount".

To be clear: do you mean maximizing the headcount of the USA, i.e., preventing domestic deaths? Or (more likely) do you mean empire building in the sense of increasing the size and power of their own organizations?

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#107

Post by yourepowerless »

tptacek wrote: post #97
mistermann wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It boggles my mind that post-Snowden people still think it's not possible for people to keep quiet about such things, I mean even Apple is able to maintain an enormous amount of privacy of things going on behind closed doors, the idea that one single person being blackmailed and not saying anything about it is difficult to believe.....I dunno.

What did Snowden change about any of this? The programs Snowden revealed were so well-known --- many of them having been reported in the press prior to Snowden's leaks --- that you can find them alluded to in the first edition of Applied Cryptography, back in the 1990s. Were you surprised by the Snowden leaks? Even after AT&T and Room 641a?

Keep writing the same stuff over and over, perhaps eventually your opinion will warp reality and rewrite history, until then just some empty air.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#108

Post by rhizome »

cpeterso wrote: post #56
ars wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> can we learn who the FBI was spying on? It seems to me that only that person themself should reveal that, or not, as they choose.

But do they even themselves know? Did the gag order prevent Nicholas Merrill from alerting the subscriber? Based on the redacted latter, it appears the subscriber's email address is about 23 or fewer characters. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/4610_001...

That could be, but I did notice from the gradual reveals of the NSL that it seems like they have a minimum mark-size, like 1/2", even if (or especially if) it's just one letter.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#109

Post by r00fus »

jsnathan wrote: post #67
raquo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would also explain why corruption is allowed to happen, kinda. Is there a realistic exit from that situation?

IF this were the case, then the solution would be a whistleblower. Or someone hacking into the system, who makes the information collected public. Of course this person would face even more risk than Snowden ever did.

On could argue that was why Aaron Swartz died. Of course discussing this is considered "CT".

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#110

Post by plorg »

jacquesm wrote: post #98
tptacek wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sibel Edmonds alleges that the FBI collected information about the lesbian affair of a Democratic Congresswoman. That is a bombshell accusation, one I'd hazard would be more newsworthy to most people in the US than the Snowden disclosures. Why can I only find references to that allegation on sites like LewRockwell.com, and not on WaPo or the NYT?

I have absolutely no clue. But that's a weird one, especially since it never resulted in any kind of fall-out either way. You'd take that those accusations would not be left to stand without a solid rebuttal.

...unless they were very obviously made up and the person making them of little public importance, in which case it would probably be more damaging to even acknowledge them as being worth discussion.
Post reply on HN