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Why Poor Countries Are Poor

reason.com

101–110 of 142 posts

Re: Why Poor Countries Are Poor

#101
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which native Americans? The Yaqui? Or the Iroquois, pre-league or post-league? Or the Chiricahua Apaches? Or the Pequot? Each of those had their own unique culture, their own identity, their own language, their own technology. Some were cruel to their captives and in times of war; others were not. Some wanted to expand their territory and conquer lands and other tribes, while others had found territory to settle in a…

Any of them. They were all steam rolled by us. >Some were cruel to their captives and in times of war; others were not. What bearing does this have on anything? Most of the bad things we hear about were learned from someone else (e.g. scalping from the French). >Some wanted to expand their territory and conquer lands and other tribes, There was in-fighting between certain groups, but obviously none had the same appet…

The romanticized Indians where the victims bent, is a little old. The fact of the matter is the Indians (all distinctive cultures) where the looser in a bitter battle between two cultures. Both where right and both where wrong. Both committed atrocities that are appealing by today's standards. The white apologist thing is just neo-trendy but true history does not support your conclusion.

The fact of the matter is, for better or worse European and Asian cultures with the help at times from middle eastern cultures have bettered the human condition and history clearly supports that conclusion.

The grandparent post is right, society has congealed into functional and dysfunctional land masses. I would go so far as to state that it is a gradient, where land masses like the middle east are somewhere in between. Now we can stick our head and the sand and say it is not true and continue with the standard kumbaya, everybody is a winner, Disney movie observations, that it is not the case or we can accept that either culturally, geographically, racially, nutritionally or via some other unknown, there are regions that are prone to violence, rampant corruption, less innovation and political abuse / instability.

We will be none the better, until we come to that acceptance and formulate real solutions that address the real issue and not just band-aiding it with aid and dictator coddling. That just furthers the problem.

Re: Why Poor Countries Are Poor

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most African countries actually were better off under colonialism.

try reading achebe - one of his books (it's in the african trilogy collection) describes quite well, if i remember correctly, how the colonial system created this problem in the first place. or just read this article again and consider how close it is to living under foreign rule - colonialism replaced whatever working, local solutions existed with a system that meant that the logical thing to do was screw over other…

>how the colonial system created this problem in the first place

This reminds me of how in the UK parliament the political parties bicker about who's fault something is. Most of the ex-colonies have been autonomous more than long enough to establish their own stable governance if the combined will of the people were for it.

Re: Why Poor Countries Are Poor

#103
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't stand that argument. It ignores history and millions that died under colonial rule, or episodes like in China when the economy was ruined because the western powers wanted to pay for goods with drugs. Or india where british rule deindustrialized india and forced it to buy salt from a monopoly. Or southeast asia where rich kingdoms where plundered and basically forced to become agrarian exporters. It also igno…

It would be safer to be an Afghan woman under the communists than the Taliban or current US occupation.

In what way does US occupation threaten women?

Re: Why Poor Countries Are Poor

#104
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you chose to work against poverty in India, what would you do? :-) See, my version of your question is: What would Gandhi (or Nehru, Bose, Azad, Bhagat, Savarkar, et. al.) do? I don't have an answer to that right now , I am afraid.

I am not fully convinced that everybody could be a Gandhi. Wasn't he from a wealthy family and got sent to England to study? Probably everybody could do fasting (although even that might require a certain amount of dediction). But to come of with the psychological strength and dedication would be another matter. Maybe for everybody there is a path of possible actions that would lead him to become like Ghandhi. But th…

Not everybody can be a Gandhi, but here is a suggestion. You can light a room with a candle but not a City, you can help by helping in your 'little corner' and I don't mean charity. India has come a long way. I remember when every other year there was a 'Faminine' in India no more. Just by working hard and improving yourself and your family you are helping pull India out of poverty. Don't pay a bribe to no-one. Don't support the system this way. I have a couple of Indian acquaintances that I know made a lot of money out of bribes. Good luck to them. Give your children a good education and good moral support. Help others in indirect ways (ie, give a chance of a job to a kid from a poor family - if he deserves it). I believe education lifts people. If you can find a way to support education do it. Support the small trader rather than the big store.

Re: Why Poor Countries Are Poor

#105
post #101
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any of them. They were all steam rolled by us. >Some were cruel to their captives and in times of war; others were not. What bearing does this have on anything? Most of the bad things we hear about were learned from someone else (e.g. scalping from the French). >Some wanted to expand their territory and conquer lands and other tribes, There was in-fighting between certain groups, but obviously none had the same appet…

The romanticized Indians where the victims bent, is a little old. The fact of the matter is the Indians (all distinctive cultures) where the looser in a bitter battle between two cultures. Both where right and both where wrong. Both committed atrocities that are appealing by today's standards. The white apologist thing is just neo-trendy but true history does not support your conclusion. The fact of the matter is, fo…

> "Appealing" by today's standards.

Amusing slip, but the sad thing is some people would agree with this statement.

Re: Why Poor Countries Are Poor

#106
post #14

So the reason that poor countries are poor is Corruption

This trend of reducing every HN story to a glib one-liner is really starting to be obnoxious. The article is actually quite interesting in that it examines the motives a dictator has to foster stability and financial growth (so that there is more to plunder). But to achieve this growth the dictator needs help from the army or the police (any group of men with guns will do) and that comes in the form of letting them i…

So what you're saying is that yes, the reason poor countries are poor is corruption? But for some reason that sticks in your craw?

A politician can win the support of the people, including the armed enforcers, by other means than threat of death. If it were possible to have a political group that, I don't know, laid out a plan for the countries future and won support that way. Then, winning support of thugs with guns, by allowing them to plunder, in order to subdue your population by force wouldn't be necessary. Then you could start to rebuild the pride and position of your country and its people and those people could work together to help build a nation.

Pipe dreams I suppose.

Re: Why Poor Countries Are Poor

#108
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure we should have accepted Romania into the EU before this problem is fixed. If I lived anywhere else, I'd have the same opinion :) > Do you think it's helping against corruption or is any incentive now gone? Actually, it's helping, since we are monitored and we get warnings and sanctions now and then ... one of the main concerns being corruption. I don't think that the end-result can be predicted though,…

I just saw something related in the news, apparently corruption in Afghanistan is on the scale of 23% of GDP. I can imagine that changing an economic system with that much corruption to something better is hard, since everyone depends on how things are now. Imagine what would happen if everyone's salary was suddenly cut to three quarters... Actually, that's more or less what's happening in the Baltic countries now. T…

Fortunately honesty seems more prevalent in the Baltic countries.

Re: Why Poor Countries Are Poor

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

try reading achebe - one of his books (it's in the african trilogy collection) describes quite well, if i remember correctly, how the colonial system created this problem in the first place. or just read this article again and consider how close it is to living under foreign rule - colonialism replaced whatever working, local solutions existed with a system that meant that the logical thing to do was screw over other…

> how the colonial system created this problem in the first place This reminds me of how in the UK parliament the political parties bicker about who's fault something is. Most of the ex-colonies have been autonomous more than long enough to establish their own stable governance if the combined will of the people were for it.

[deleted]

Re: Why Poor Countries Are Poor

#110
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, we have a public health system, and while I paid something like $15000 last year in taxes (a big amount for us), my wife got pregnant, she's having problems ... and we've had to bribe a doctor to even speak to us, not to mention they demand big bribes for doing a clean caesarean section, and my wife needs it. The poor souls that don't have money for bribes simply get fucked. How is that not the governmen…

Not all problems can be solved by competition. This specific one could be best solved by a strong medical association, backed by strong laws, enforcing ethical behavior.

Oh, competition could still help. Interestingly, you can have some forms of competition, even with a public health care system.
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