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My father had one job, I've had six, my kids will have six at the same time

theguardian.com

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Re: My father had one job, I've had six, my kids will have six at the same time

#21

Post by paganel »

danieltillett wrote: post #7
vmateixeira wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be in a perfect world..

Assuming we have some sort of base income I agree.

Basic income without equality of income doesn't solve anything in the long run, it only allows those from the higher societal levels to feel good about themselves while patting each other on the back: "we took care of poverty!". And then, when inevitably people who live on basic income will "revolt", the higher ups will respond with the inevitable "why don't they eat cake?".

Thing is, is nice to not have to worry about putting food on the table, but it is less than nice when you see that you, your kids, your kids' kids etc will never be more than assisted babies (for a lack of a better expression), never having the opportunity to own an yacht, to have a private vacation villa on a Greek island or to book a trip to Mars come 2030. Humans are complicated.

Re: My father had one job, I've had six, my kids will have six at the same time

#22

Post by icebraining »

gaius wrote: post #11
zby wrote: post #9

Maybe 'a job' is something that fitted a particular phase of our civilisation development and it just will fade away? A hunter gatherer (I bring this as my example - because as a species we spent most of our time in that phase) would do many things - but we would not call them jobs.

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. -- Robert Heinlein

Said by a character that lived to be 2000 years old :)

Re: My father had one job, I've had six, my kids will have six at the same time

#23

Post by F2468 »

sgt101 wrote: post #15
csvan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Base income does not come out of nothing though. You need state income, which depends on taxation, which depends on people working and consuming.

Unless the state owns the means of production. What if the future is red?

A red future is a dark future.

So let's hope we don't go down that road.

Re: My father had one job, I've had six, my kids will have six at the same time

#24

Post by icebraining »

gaius wrote: post #12
csvan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Base income does not come out of nothing though. You need state income, which depends on taxation, which depends on people working and consuming.

Yes that is the elephant in the corner of the so-called "sharing" economy - who is paying their taxes, who is paying for the basic infrastructure that all these services piggyback on? You can't have Uber without well-maintained roads for example. You can't even have AirBnB without refuse collectors.

What makes you think they don't pay taxes? AirBnB has even been forced to collect hotel taxes in SF, besides the regular taxes that all companies pay.

Re: My father had one job, I've had six, my kids will have six at the same time

#25

Post by Joeboy »

paganel wrote: post #21
danieltillett wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming we have some sort of base income I agree.

Basic income without equality of income doesn't solve anything in the long run, it only allows those from the higher societal levels to feel good about themselves while patting each other on the back: "we took care of poverty!". And then, when inevitably people who live on basic income will "revolt", the higher ups will respond with the inevitable "why don't they eat cake?". Thing is, is nice to not have to worry abo…

If you want to pursue great wealth, needing a job seems like a much bigger barrier than having a basic income.

Re: My father had one job, I've had six, my kids will have six at the same time

#26

Post by icebraining »

chii wrote: post #17
danieltillett wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, but if those working are efficient enough this can be supported. Once upon a time 99% of people were peasants and now we have the majority of the population providing non- essential services.

> majority of the population providing non- essential services. 'essentiality' doesn't come into the equation. Those who managed to amass a fortune being more efficient will want servants and other people to serve them (entertainers, sex workers, etc etc), which cannot easily be provided by machines. The economy will revert back to a fuedal one, where you become "owned" by the rich. Unless, of course, the people rebe…

Why would the wants of the rich require a reversion to a feudal economy? Even if you have widespread basic income, the rich will have no trouble finding people wishing to earn more and willing to trade their time for that.

Re: My father had one job, I've had six, my kids will have six at the same time

#27

Post by Joeboy »

thorin wrote: post #13

Looking at a lot of job ads they want 5 developers for one job: sys admin, dba, software dev, ui, design...

What's wrong with that? People in most jobs are expected to be able to do more than one thing. I much prefer to be allowed to do all that stuff rather than having to go through some bureaucratic / diplomatic process to get a widget added to my form or a field added to my table.

Admittedly it's nice to have a specialist on hand to fix things like gnarly css bugs if they arise.

Re: My father had one job, I've had six, my kids will have six at the same time

#28

Post by nvarsj »

zby wrote: post #9

Maybe 'a job' is something that fitted a particular phase of our civilisation development and it just will fade away? A hunter gatherer (I bring this as my example - because as a species we spent most of our time in that phase) would do many things - but we would not call them jobs.

It will be the end of progress in civilisation I think, if we don't allow people to specialise. Although I think many people would be happy with that, or allow themselves to believe they would be.

Re: My father had one job, I've had six, my kids will have six at the same time

#29

Post by kbart »

thorin wrote: post #13

Looking at a lot of job ads they want 5 developers for one job: sys admin, dba, software dev, ui, design...

Don't be scared of secondary requirements in ads as most often they don't require expertise in the mentioned area. During job interviews, "database specialist" "becomes" someone, who can write simple queries, "a web designer" - someone who can tinker CSS, "web development" - update Wordpress page etc.

Re: My father had one job, I've had six, my kids will have six at the same time

#30

Post by andyjohnson0 »

If you have in-demand skills then maybe the 'gig' economy can be a nice place to be: money and flexibility can create quite a nice lifestyle, if some comments I read on HN are to be believed.

But for those not in the top-layer its going to be "welcome to the precariat" [1]. Constant hustling, unpredictable income and housing, moving-on a lot, fewer social ties. For those at the bottom it's zero-hour contracts driving for Uber and stacking shelves at Amazon fulfilment centres.

Traditional full-time jobs provide a lot of the security necessary for long-term commitments like raising children, educating them properly (so that they in turn have sell-able skills), and engaging/participating in society. When almost everyone is chasing the next contract to pay the rent, the result can be a hollowed-out society where we all end-up poorer.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precariat

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