Coding is boring, unless • Hacker News Board

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#21

Post by TeMPOraL » Sun, Nov 29, 2015, 2:39 PM UTC

lubonay wrote: post #18

sohcahtoa wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are two ways to view what the job most programmers do is. IMO it isn't to write code, it's to solve business problems. Code just happens to be the tool that you use to do that, most of the time. Anyone who tries to solve a problem by staring hard at a blank piece of paper instead of just googling the answer is not making effective use of their time.

You are missing the forest for the trees. Reaching for Google and SO as your first impulse when confronted with a problem will deteriorate your ability to find your own solutions in the long run. Use it or lose it, as they say. And besides, any non-trivial problem can't be solved by copying code from SO alone.

Most companies don't solve non-trivial problems. For instance, 90% of web development is regurgitating the same CRUD for different customers. Most of the work consists of wiring standard components together in a standard way, and slapping some CSS on top of it. If you're trying to think too much and reinvent too much, you'll waste a lot of time.

Source: did too much webdev in my life already, and wasted way too much time doing things by myself.

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#22

Post by aninhumer » Sun, Nov 29, 2015, 2:39 PM UTC

sohcahtoa wrote: post #14

gotchange wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always amazes me that there are people out there willing to hire and pay full these type of workers who scour SO for answers without working hard on the problem and expanding their knowledge and expertise in the process. No wonder that our field and profession is suffering from bad image and quality problem when so-called pros copy and paste all the time on the job.

I think there are two ways to view what the job most programmers do is. IMO it isn't to write code, it's to solve business problems. Code just happens to be the tool that you use to do that, most of the time. Anyone who tries to solve a problem by staring hard at a blank piece of paper instead of just googling the answer is not making effective use of their time.

Of course, but anyone who tries to solve a problem by copying the first piece of code they find on SO without even trying to understand the problem is likely to be similarly ineffective in the long term.

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#23

Post by krick » Sun, Nov 29, 2015, 2:40 PM UTC

Off topic: I don't know a single feature that would be as annoying as fucking toolbar/header/whatever showing up when you scroll upwards. Why everybody does this?

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#24

Post by sohcahtoa » Sun, Nov 29, 2015, 2:40 PM UTC

Bahamut wrote: post #19

sohcahtoa wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are two ways to view what the job most programmers do is. IMO it isn't to write code, it's to solve business problems. Code just happens to be the tool that you use to do that, most of the time. Anyone who tries to solve a problem by staring hard at a blank piece of paper instead of just googling the answer is not making effective use of their time.

It depends on the problems you're solving - SO does not help with problems of architecture. For code structuring, staring hard at a sheet of paper or nothingness can absolutely be more effective.

Can't argue with that. Although I do think architecture is where patterns start to be useful - again, relying on pre-existing solutions rather than creating your own.

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#25

Post by VLM » Sun, Nov 29, 2015, 2:41 PM UTC

ggambetta wrote: post #2

> Because 50% of my code (hyperbole intended!) was a direct copy/paste of Stack Overflow. And another 40% was a copy/paste from other scripts. Either my colleagues’ scripts or my own. It became repetitive. And there was little creativity or learning involved. How is this even possible? I've never had a job where copying and pasting code would have helped. It blows my mind every time I read this kind of claim, to the…

Something no other commenters mentioned (so far) is every programming book starts out with "hello world" and this spread online not just to generic language teaching but into APIs and libraries.

Bootstrapping up from hello world is nearly guaranteed to work, write the entire thing first then try it is a recipe for pain.

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#26

Post by gotchange » Sun, Nov 29, 2015, 2:42 PM UTC

sohcahtoa wrote: post #14

gotchange wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always amazes me that there are people out there willing to hire and pay full these type of workers who scour SO for answers without working hard on the problem and expanding their knowledge and expertise in the process. No wonder that our field and profession is suffering from bad image and quality problem when so-called pros copy and paste all the time on the job.

I think there are two ways to view what the job most programmers do is. IMO it isn't to write code, it's to solve business problems. Code just happens to be the tool that you use to do that, most of the time. Anyone who tries to solve a problem by staring hard at a blank piece of paper instead of just googling the answer is not making effective use of their time.

Technical workers solve technical problems not business problems. Upper management folks instead solve business problems. Our job as techies is to model/define the business problem in technical terms and then work on it. That's why they pay us and if some are not competent or proficient enough with their tech tools, that will reflect poorly on the quality of their finished product and copying and pasting won't always save the day for them. Also and this is very important, if they would like to grow professionally, they ought to work on their own and develop their skills organically or fear that they'll be stuck forever in the "apprentice" level for their whole career.

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#27

Post by vinay427 » Sun, Nov 29, 2015, 2:42 PM UTC

to3m wrote: post #9

I hope that's somebody's living quarters in the photo, and not their office! I've worked at a couple of offices that felt tightly packed, but they were nothing by comparison to that ;) As a long-term proposition, I'd say that table is suitable for no more than 3. (Not sure what official guidelines are, but I'd say you'd need around 150cm x 75cm, or 5' x 2'6", per person. That gives you enough room for keyboard-laptop…

>I hope that's somebody's living quarters in the photo, and not their office! I've worked at a couple of offices that felt tightly packed, but they were nothing by comparison to that ;)

That looks like a typical university hackathon to me. Certainly not excusable if it is an office. Thankfully my only workspace (at an internship) had nicely sized desks for everyone, and the company was looking to expand by renting more office space rather than decreasing desk space.

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#28

Post by charlieflowers » Sun, Nov 29, 2015, 2:43 PM UTC

The business exists to make a profit, and it needs to perform financially as well as possible this quarter.

That does not always align with what is most interesting for a developer to pursue.

So in the short term and medium term, these goals are usually at odds. In the long term, you can find harmony between them sometimes if you try really hard.

It's impossible by definition for them to be in harmony all the time. Too bad, but that's reality. Each individual developer has to occasionally re-align them by making a job change.

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#29

Post by gotchange » Sun, Nov 29, 2015, 2:44 PM UTC

lubonay wrote: post #18

sohcahtoa wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are two ways to view what the job most programmers do is. IMO it isn't to write code, it's to solve business problems. Code just happens to be the tool that you use to do that, most of the time. Anyone who tries to solve a problem by staring hard at a blank piece of paper instead of just googling the answer is not making effective use of their time.

You are missing the forest for the trees. Reaching for Google and SO as your first impulse when confronted with a problem will deteriorate your ability to find your own solutions in the long run. Use it or lose it, as they say. And besides, any non-trivial problem can't be solved by copying code from SO alone.

> Use it or lose it

No pain, no gain.

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#30

Post by moron4hire » Sun, Nov 29, 2015, 2:44 PM UTC

sohcahtoa wrote: post #14

gotchange wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always amazes me that there are people out there willing to hire and pay full these type of workers who scour SO for answers without working hard on the problem and expanding their knowledge and expertise in the process. No wonder that our field and profession is suffering from bad image and quality problem when so-called pros copy and paste all the time on the job.

I think there are two ways to view what the job most programmers do is. IMO it isn't to write code, it's to solve business problems. Code just happens to be the tool that you use to do that, most of the time. Anyone who tries to solve a problem by staring hard at a blank piece of paper instead of just googling the answer is not making effective use of their time.

If a business problem can be solved by copy-pasta, then it's a common business problem and copy-pasta hasn't really solved it.