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Usenet, what have you become? (2012)

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Re: Usenet, what have you become? (2012)

#21
post #12
post #8

> You get one thing – [release day availability] I'd bet it's not zero days, but one stop shopping. So the consumer saves the overhead of wondering, "wait, is this on Hulu? Netflix? Amazon? iPlayer?" The entire catalog is in one place. I think Netflix and Amazon are getting to the point where their catalogs are deeper than usenet. Of course, most film junkie's "essential 100" lists will still probably hit somewhere l…

Netflix (and probably Amazon too -- I have Prime but the UI for the video service is so bad I normally don't bother with it) is falling into the cable model of hundreds of channels but nothing to watch. More often than not I will spend 15-20 minutes browsing Netflix to find something interesting that I haven't already watched, and end up just switching it off because there's not much there.

It's the same as opening the fridge, finding nothing you want, and going back a bit later with lower standards.

It's not that there is nothing there, your standards just need adjusted before you can appreciate what is there.

I guess the same can be applied to cable, but you have to really lower those standards to appreciate dozens of home shopping networks, reality TV and infomercials.

Re: Usenet, what have you become? (2012)

#22
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as with torrents, the public trackers will always have this issue. Private ones tend to have less of a problem.

What is the usenet equivalent of a private tracker? The problem with "private" indexers is the content they are indexing (the actual encoded articles) are still public.

There are private NZB sites where the NZBs themselves are not indicative of the context -- hashed titles, with password protected files. I work for a Usenet provider - it's still very much alive both for discussions and for file sharing. You just have to be very savvy.

Re: Usenet, what have you become? (2012)

#24
I am a former usenet user. I used it first for actual discussion threads (like HN!) but later for binary content. I tried it again a couple years ago and the commons are being abused. An example of it is password-protected binary content that requires going to a website to get the password which of course requires additional actions like viewing an ad or signing up for a large number of mailing lists (with embedded referral codes). There are indexers that help find content that does not suffer from this problem but they come and go.

I still would like to use usenet for that content I can't get on Netflix/Amazon/HBO/Redbox but the effort required is too much -- I'll settle for watching something else. I also feel better about actual paying for the content I consume. I have my fingers crossed that we'll see more and more of the unstreamable content come to streaming providers.

Re: Usenet, what have you become? (2012)

#26
There's still "eternal-september.org", which offers the non-binary USENET groups. The "comp.lang" hierarchy is still widely used, and the main discussions of changes to the C and C++ standard are still on USENET.

There is almost no spam.

Re: Usenet, what have you become? (2012)

#27
post #19

The fact is, it is now confusing for most end users. I tried explaining usenet the other day, and people just can't wrap their head around something other than "a web page" or "an app." Not only is it a different protocol, but it is a different interface as well. But I realize this post was meant more towards Usenet's intended audience. I know for me, I really started migrating away from Usenet around 2005-06 when th…

could you explain here?

A surprising number of people aren't able to separate the concepts of "the internet" and "the world wide web". When you try to explain that USENET is a whole separate entity from the web, running along side it on the Internet, their eyes tend to glaze over.

Re: Usenet, what have you become? (2012)

#28
post #19

The fact is, it is now confusing for most end users. I tried explaining usenet the other day, and people just can't wrap their head around something other than "a web page" or "an app." Not only is it a different protocol, but it is a different interface as well. But I realize this post was meant more towards Usenet's intended audience. I know for me, I really started migrating away from Usenet around 2005-06 when th…

could you explain here?

Usenet (NNTP) is a protocol somewhat similar to email. Unlike email, the default communication style is in "groups" (sort of like a mailing list for a specific topic). One posts individual messages (like one email) to a group; replies are threaded, much like mailing list discussions. Historically the groups were organized somewhat hierarchically.

The end result, with a good news reader program, is somewhat like a large global collection of topic-specific forums.

Binary posts are just a bunch of posts to the same group with a message Subject matching some pattern (usually with ascending numbers counting the posts). The content is encoded to work around the limitations of the protocol and/or provider. Historically this was "uuencode", but you can also do base64 (like email attachments) and the new jazz (hah! New in 2003, anyway) is "yEnc." yEnc relies on 8-bit safe NNTP servers and only encodes the few characters not permissible in NNTP messages (periods at the beginning of lines, I forget the rest). So you get much better encode ratios (~101-102% of original size) than with something like base64 (133% of original size).

NNTP providers, especially in binary groups, are subject to occasional message loss. So posters will typically generate Reed-Solomon forward-error-correction blocks using a program called "par2." This allows one to download binaries that are missing some messages, as well as some additional FEC (potentially on an as-needed basis), and rebuild the original content. Generating and recovering from par2 files is extremely computationally expensive.

Re: Usenet, what have you become? (2012)

#29
I was a loyal giganews user for 10+ years. Then the content creators started getting content pulled very quickly, sometimes within days of upload, and the whole thing started becoming a huge hassle.

By this point I was making enough money that $30 a month split between a few streaming services and a few bucks occasionally for a movie on amazon prime wasn't a big deal. It feels good to pay for quality. But as a young kid, who wanted to experience so many types of media and no means to pay, usenet was the best.

Piracy is the perfect thing for kids interested in computers to use. It's complex, you need to figure stuff out, takes a lot of time (which kids have), and the reward for doing so is free content. But once you get old and are time-poor and have the money, it's not really needed anymore.

Re: Usenet, what have you become? (2012)

#30
post #8

> You get one thing – [release day availability] I'd bet it's not zero days, but one stop shopping. So the consumer saves the overhead of wondering, "wait, is this on Hulu? Netflix? Amazon? iPlayer?" The entire catalog is in one place. I think Netflix and Amazon are getting to the point where their catalogs are deeper than usenet. Of course, most film junkie's "essential 100" lists will still probably hit somewhere l…

One-stop shopping and the legal "protection" of not appearing on a bittorrent peer list. (It's still illegal, but less detectable.)

The media companies have largely caught on to Usenet and have been issuing automated DMCAs on Usenet content immediately since the early 2010s. Since the posts are stored on a centralized server, the providers can and do comply with DMCA takedowns with automated software. As a result, popular TV and Movies with correct titles are usually taken down quickly.

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