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Why Poor Countries Are Poor

reason.com

21–30 of 142 posts

Re: Why Poor Countries Are Poor

#21
post #12

I'm impressed this article basically explains why do I live in a poor country. I live in Ecuador (South America). Our land is packed with high-quality oil, virtually unlimited food and impressive biodiversity (google "yasuni"). Although our country looks perfect, 15% of us live in extreme poverty (this means living out of less than 2 bucks a day). The other 60% is mid-low class with less than $1000 of annual income.…

But then, how do poor countries end up getting day after day such lousy governments? Is the people/society a factor in that? (after all, they DO vote, at least in Ecuador)

Re: Why Poor Countries Are Poor

#22
post #12

I'm impressed this article basically explains why do I live in a poor country. I live in Ecuador (South America). Our land is packed with high-quality oil, virtually unlimited food and impressive biodiversity (google "yasuni"). Although our country looks perfect, 15% of us live in extreme poverty (this means living out of less than 2 bucks a day). The other 60% is mid-low class with less than $1000 of annual income.…

But then, how do poor countries end up getting day after day such lousy governments? Is the people/society a factor in that? (after all, they DO vote, at least in Ecuador)

Some poor countries are able to bootstrap themselves out of it though. The article cites China, Taiwan, South Korea, Botswana, Chile, India, Mauritius, and Singapore as countries which historically were chronically poor and now are some of the fastest growing economies in the world.

Re: Why Poor Countries Are Poor

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gabon:Cameroon::Oman:Yemen. Oil. No, really, the author is saying nothing. Wealth is just one part of a society. Effective government is another part. They are both effects of other causes. And they themselves feed back. It's not hard to point out the essentially gangster-like attributes of almost any government. The USA seizes its citizens' property and kills people all across the world. Oddly, since it steals so mu…

I don't think it's that complicated. And I think that various reasons might explain portions of the problem. For example, maybe this reason explains 70% of the problem. We can use science, mathematics, and statistics to test hypothesis about this, and journalism to publicize the results of our tests, as this guy and the people he cites have done. But I don't think calling someone a reductionist sociologist without pr…

To respond to techiferous quickly, I'll just point out that the author is basically advertising the fact that he is reductionist by heading sections with "The Missing Jigsaw Piece", etc. Maybe the book is different, okay.

We can use science, mathematics, and statistics to test hypothesis

You can't, though. It's really hard to make the world a laboratory, though it does sometimes happen by accident. The differences between N and S Korea, E and W Germany, China and Taiwan, I think, settled the question of Communism vs. Capitalism. But good luck in getting the grant money to set up such an experiment. I've pointed out that the USA itself is really a quite corrupt, thieving, murderous entity, but this hasn't really mattered that much. Another example? Nazi Germany. They had a ridiculous war economy, they sent all their young men to butcher people, they imprisoned millions of citizens and foreigners, they had brutal police and internal security, etc, etc. All the worst possible things. Worse than Cameroon could possibly aspire to. And yet the country was prosperous almost to the end of the regime. And this was coming off the heels of the worst historical instances of hyperinflation, depression, and world war. All of which were also caused by politicians.

That's a lot of bad government but it ultimately didn't matter at all.

Re: Why Poor Countries Are Poor

#24
post #12

I'm impressed this article basically explains why do I live in a poor country. I live in Ecuador (South America). Our land is packed with high-quality oil, virtually unlimited food and impressive biodiversity (google "yasuni"). Although our country looks perfect, 15% of us live in extreme poverty (this means living out of less than 2 bucks a day). The other 60% is mid-low class with less than $1000 of annual income.…

But then, how do poor countries end up getting day after day such lousy governments? Is the people/society a factor in that? (after all, they DO vote, at least in Ecuador)

Yes, society/culture are an important factor I guess. People do vote for the wrong presidents.

The law allows them to promise a lot of things during campaign although there is not a strong control, audit system in place.

Historically the congress majority is controlled by the president's party.

It gets very complicated if we keep looking into the problem. The conclusion is that we may be indeed partly guilty for it.

Re: Why Poor Countries Are Poor

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's that complicated. And I think that various reasons might explain portions of the problem. For example, maybe this reason explains 70% of the problem. We can use science, mathematics, and statistics to test hypothesis about this, and journalism to publicize the results of our tests, as this guy and the people he cites have done. But I don't think calling someone a reductionist sociologist without pr…

To respond to techiferous quickly, I'll just point out that the author is basically advertising the fact that he is reductionist by heading sections with "The Missing Jigsaw Piece", etc. Maybe the book is different, okay. We can use science, mathematics, and statistics to test hypothesis You can't, though. It's really hard to make the world a laboratory, though it does sometimes happen by accident. The differences be…

"It's really hard to make the world a laboratory"

I agree completely. The sort of thing we're discussing isn't amenable to repeatable, controlled experiments. And it's very complex.

Re: Why Poor Countries Are Poor

#28
the government as bandit hypothesis makes a lot of sense to me. at the least it explains where money came from (did not arise naturally from barter, was originally a tally for taxes and looting).

the article was tl;dr. did they at least cite mancur olsen for the stationary bandit hypothesis? AFAIK it originated in his book the rise and decline of nations:

http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Decline-Nations-Stagflation-Rigid...

Re: Why Poor Countries Are Poor

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To respond to techiferous quickly, I'll just point out that the author is basically advertising the fact that he is reductionist by heading sections with "The Missing Jigsaw Piece", etc. Maybe the book is different, okay. We can use science, mathematics, and statistics to test hypothesis You can't, though. It's really hard to make the world a laboratory, though it does sometimes happen by accident. The differences be…

"It's really hard to make the world a laboratory" I agree completely. The sort of thing we're discussing isn't amenable to repeatable, controlled experiments. And it's very complex.

That doesn't completely defeat empiricism though. Controlled experiments are best, then uncontrolled experiments (checking that the theories are backed up by real data), then pure reason (non-reductionism) is a cop-out.
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