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The Secret Ingredient in Orange Juice

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Re: The Secret Ingredient in Orange Juice

#221

Post by wdewind »

icanhackit wrote: post #215
wdewind wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you plot the blood sugar concentration of the person consuming a solid piece of fruit you see a nice curve where the levels rise, peak, and non-violently fall. There's nothing wrong with this except that it probably makes you feel more hungry and eat more. But the blood sugar surge isn't really unhealthy in normal people, it's usually the subsequent behavioral impact (the low that makes you feel hungry) that cau…

There's nothing wrong with this I agree there's nothing wrong with the part quoted. That's an ideal outcome. And the surge of blood sugar concentration from juice wasn't the part I was concerned about (unless it results in a child going into a hyperactive transdimensional shit-fit). The blood sugar crash is the significant part: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoglycemia#Signs_and_symptom... Low blood sugar also play…

Yep, totally agree with all this! Just pointing out that the low blood sugar in and of itself is probably not a huge deal from a health perspective, just the bad decision that comes from it.

Re: The Secret Ingredient in Orange Juice

#222

Post by jjoonathan »

pmoriarty wrote: post #185
jjoonathan wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only controversial aspect of "honesty in labeling" is that it would enable and empower FUD campaigns from the "scaring you with science" crowd. Saying that these issues are separate is like a coal salesperson saying "my product is about energy, not polluting the environment." Maybe you wish that were the case, but that does not make it so. I don't want genetic engineering and industrial preservation techniques to…

So you would you advocate the so-called Noble Lie? [1] The problem to me with such an approach (even given that the end is in fact alturistic and beneficial) is: who gets to decide which lies get to be told, and who decides what is beneficial? Beneficial to whom? the whole society? some subset of society? Do we allow all lies in advertising? Or just ones you or some elite (perhaps scientists or technocrats) determine…

And who gets to define what is a lie and what isn't? Where you see a lie, I see a truth that causes misdirection when vitalists trip over their own logical shortcomings.

Let's get one thing straight: you're the one who wants to extend the current definition of "lie" to include this particular brand of misdirection and then censor that misdirection. You're the one who wants to "hold advertisers to a higher standard" in the name of benefiting society. I'm the one advocating the comparatively hands-off approach of continuing to restrict censorship to literally false statements. Those hard questions you asked about who should get to make arbitrary decisions are the ones you have to answer for your argument to be convincing.

Re: The Secret Ingredient in Orange Juice

#223

Post by stretchwithme »

icanhackit wrote: post #220
dcosson wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, the process you describe is true of glucose but actually not fructose. Glucose gets absorbed into your blood, causes your pancreas to start releasing more insulin into the blood, which causes basically all the cells in your body to start absorbing glucose. Fructose on the other hand can only be processed by your liver, so all the fructose you eat just kind of queues up for your liver to process it…

Fructose on the other hand can only be processed by your liver You're correct and my original post is incorrect with regards to fructose. Thanks for pointing this out - it's better to be wrong but enlightened.

And that makes you're both right now!

Lustig goes through all the processes here:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

Re: The Secret Ingredient in Orange Juice

#224

Post by downer71 »

hmate9 wrote: post #62

It seems like nothing you can buy in a supermarket is healthly.

It really depends on the specific super market you visit.

Some of them are really bad. Others are really incredibly and amazingly good.

The fresher the food, and the greater the variety of products, the better. Some chains seem to stock just massive amounts of commodity agribusiness food, but more selective stores will put in the extra work, and provide a rotating selection among many different options, and limit the mass-produced factory food.

Sometimes, within the same chain, it can boil down to the managers and the degree of control they have over stocking the shelves, or the amount of effort they're interested in investing in (or believe in the value of) putting thought into the products they stock. In New York City, there is a HUGE degree of variation WITHIN CHAINS, varying from neighborhood to neighborhood.

So, if none of the stores within your town are great, maybe try the next town over? You might notice a big difference, even if the sign outside is the same.

Re: The Secret Ingredient in Orange Juice

#225

Post by peteretep » 

    > I’m sure you’re careful to buy the kind that’s 100%
    > juice and not made from concentrate. After all,
    > that’s the healthier kind, right?
If you're going to drink sugar water, it's unlikely to make much difference if it came straight from an orange or from concentrate. It seems a bit like worrying about whether your cigarette papers were naturally bleached or not.

    > flavor packs are made from orange by-products — even though
    > these ‘by-products’ are so chemically manipulated that they
    > hardly qualify as ‘by-products’ any more.
I would love to know what that actually means, other than being scare-quote-tastic. How does something stop qualifying as a by-product?

    > Yet those in the industry will tell you that the flavor
    > packs, whether made for reconstituted or pasteurized orange
    > juice, resemble nothing found in nature
The pork sausages I buy come exlusively from pigs, herbs, and onions, and yet they also "resemeble nothing found in nature", unless Big Feline has invented meat grinders while we weren't watching.

Re: The Secret Ingredient in Orange Juice

#226

Post by plorg »

anon4 wrote: post #127
guelo wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or water. I've always found Dasani to have a suspiciously consistent and unique flavor and mouth feel.

I'll just remark that for water, I do want to drink a pure chemical, possibly with a little bit of minerals in, if it can't be helped.

Is this really true? Do you only drink pure de-ionized or distilled water? It is certainly important for some applications, but I don't know many people who find it palatable on its own. Pretty much any water you buy or get from your tap has minerals in it, and often they are beneficial to your health.

Re: The Secret Ingredient in Orange Juice

#227

Post by molecule »

will_pseudonym wrote: post #216
icanhackit wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I'm skeptical about the "juice is bad" meme. It is and for a simple reason that we've known about for a long time: glycaemic index. If the sugars (fructose) are locked in a matrix of cellulose (AKA dietary fibre) they're released gradually as your body digests the bulk matter. If you plot the blood sugar concentration of the person consuming a solid piece of fruit you see a nice curve where the levels rise, peak,…

I've never understood the glycemic index stuff. It didn't seem to fit my experience. I just researched this, and I came upon this article: http://www.foodrenegade.com/glycemic-index-vs-glycemic-load/ I had never heard of glycemic load before today, and I'm always reading articles about nutrition science. It seems like fruit and veg have relatively high glycemic indices, but low glycemic load--which means that they're…

> Who here can imagine a doctor telling anyone on earth not to eat more carrots?

Completely tangential, but I can imagine doctors treating patients complaining of Carotenosis:

Carotenemia or carotenaemia (xanthaemia) is the presence of the orange pigment carotene in blood from excessive intake of carrots or other vegetables containing the pigment resulting in increased serum carotenoids. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carotenosis

Re: The Secret Ingredient in Orange Juice

#228

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

beloch wrote: post #87

"Juice removed from the fruit is just concentrated fructose without any of the naturally-occurring fiber, pectin, and other goodies that make eating a whole fruit good for you. Did you know, for example, that it takes 6-8 medium sized apples to make just 1 cup of apple juice? You probably wouldn’t be able to eat 6-8 medium apples in a single sitting. (I know I can barely eat one!) But you can casually throw back a cu…

You do realize that the concept of a "sugar high" is fictional propaganda invented to help enforce sugar rationing during WW2. Painting juice consumption as dangerous is silly. Not everyone is an incipient diabetic.

Re: The Secret Ingredient in Orange Juice

#229

Post by s_q_b »

mc808 wrote: post #92
s_q_b wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

Ab abusu ad usum non valet consequentia :)

Colloquial translation for those of you playing along at home:

The burden of proof lies with he who affirms not he who denies, since by the nature of things, he who denies cannot produce any proof.

(This is the classic statement of the presumption of innocence, and also one of the core principles in the dawn of Enlightenment era science, where it was adapted into our modern understanding of scientific skepticism.)

>That which is said in Latin seems deep.

Just because something is abused does not mean that a proper usage of the same is also wrong.

We're also attempting to communicate solely through well known quotations, which poses its own set of unique constraints.

Re: The Secret Ingredient in Orange Juice

#230

Post by outworlder »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #228
beloch wrote: post #87

"Juice removed from the fruit is just concentrated fructose without any of the naturally-occurring fiber, pectin, and other goodies that make eating a whole fruit good for you. Did you know, for example, that it takes 6-8 medium sized apples to make just 1 cup of apple juice? You probably wouldn’t be able to eat 6-8 medium apples in a single sitting. (I know I can barely eat one!) But you can casually throw back a cu…

You do realize that the concept of a "sugar high" is fictional propaganda invented to help enforce sugar rationing during WW2. Painting juice consumption as dangerous is silly. Not everyone is an incipient diabetic.

Having a diabetic brother made me research a lot of stuff so I beg to differ.

If nothing else, high and uneven sugar levels are a recipe for getting fat and to get insulin resistance.

Excess glicose floating around in your bloodstream is harmful. You want a constant, baseline level, but the rest should be removed asap.

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