My life after 44 years in prison • Hacker News Board

Re: My life after 44 years in prison

#41

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 10:03 PM UTC

bzz01 wrote: post #39

derekp7 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you turn this around -- two people punch two identical twins in the face. One twin dies from his injuries, and the person who punched him now faces at least involuntary manslaughter, whereas the other person just has a light assault charge. Should both people get charged with involuntary manslaughter, or should they both just get the lighter assault charge?

Good point. One answer is that manslaughter is already a special case, as it doesn't require intent to kill anyway, only negligence.

Crimes requiring some mental state other than specific intent are fairly common, not a special case (note that this includes murder of the depraved indifference sort.)

Re: My life after 44 years in prison

#42

Post by redml » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 10:13 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #36

redml wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone attempted to murder you, what do you think would be a suitable punishment for that person? Honest question. If they were in jail for a short amount of time you'd probably be a bit worried that they would come find you after and finish the job.

I think after 44 years I'd feel pretty safe. Attempted murder of a head of state, maybe 25 years or so? Assuming pre-meditation. Attempted murder of myself, 10 years at most, if not pre-meditated, otherwise if it was pre-meditated then some more, but with a chance of parole given good behaviour and maybe psychiatric observation. Aggravating or other circumstances should be taken into account too, I'm sure that those…

> Does the guy in that article look like a serious threat to you?

Well he's old now, that was probably the point of his sentence.

> I also question the extra months after he served the many many years for a shoplifting charge when he was 17.

He did allegedly try to kill a cop afterall, I have no doubt the judge was not kind to him for that.

He's rehabilitated now, but you're right that 44 years wasn't necessary. I'd also say 25, tops.

Re: My life after 44 years in prison

#43

Post by ewzimm » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 10:18 PM UTC

vacri wrote: post #31

mrec wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you'd committed one crime, that would remove the primary deterrent against committing more (as long as they were no more serious than the first).

It doesn't seem to be working that way as a deterrent, then, given that the US has an incarceration rate five times higher than it's developed-nation contemporaries (750/100k vs ~100-150/100k population).

It's working well as a deterrent, but the goal is not to deter people from committing crimes; it's to deter minorities from going to white neighborhoods for fear of getting arrested. America's cities are very well segregated as a result.

Re: My life after 44 years in prison

#44

Post by zanny » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 10:27 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #36

redml wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone attempted to murder you, what do you think would be a suitable punishment for that person? Honest question. If they were in jail for a short amount of time you'd probably be a bit worried that they would come find you after and finish the job.

I think after 44 years I'd feel pretty safe. Attempted murder of a head of state, maybe 25 years or so? Assuming pre-meditation. Attempted murder of myself, 10 years at most, if not pre-meditated, otherwise if it was pre-meditated then some more, but with a chance of parole given good behaviour and maybe psychiatric observation. Aggravating or other circumstances should be taken into account too, I'm sure that those…

Except carte blanche sentencing on intent is not enough. The attempted murderer after 10 years may be incredibly vindictive and immediately seek revenge, possibly mass murder in retaliation for his incarceration.

Likewise, the 25 year sentenced individual might wholly repent after five years, and thus sit in prison for another twenty with no rehabilitative meaning, he just rots to serve as an example to others.

You need informed decisions in the process of removing people from society and when to reintroduce them. It is not something to write down on paper or try to set universal rules. You need extensive oversight to prevent exploitation of those given the power over the lives of others, but you need informed and intelligent decision makers with multiple opinions deciding when the dangerous are fit to participate again in society, not arbitrary number guessing.

And no, its not cheap. But its more expensive socially to have the redeemed rot and the vengeful run free.

Re: My life after 44 years in prison

#45

Post by duncan_bayne » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 10:40 PM UTC

newjersey wrote: post #27

mrec wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you'd committed one crime, that would remove the primary deterrent against committing more (as long as they were no more serious than the first).

I'd still think the judge can and should be able to use discretion and allow concurrent sentences. Maybe the judge decided in this case that the sentences should not be concurrent. We don't know what judge had in their mind. I hate to go all PC (I swear I am not one of them) but I wonder whether mandatory sentencing isn't all bad. Perhaps mandatory sentencing is the most effective way to bring down sentencing rules a…

No jail time for non violent crime? I presume you've never been defrauded, burgled, etc.

Re: My life after 44 years in prison

#46

Post by jacquesm » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 10:42 PM UTC

zanny wrote: post #44

jacquesm wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think after 44 years I'd feel pretty safe. Attempted murder of a head of state, maybe 25 years or so? Assuming pre-meditation. Attempted murder of myself, 10 years at most, if not pre-meditated, otherwise if it was pre-meditated then some more, but with a chance of parole given good behaviour and maybe psychiatric observation. Aggravating or other circumstances should be taken into account too, I'm sure that those…

Except carte blanche sentencing on intent is not enough. The attempted murderer after 10 years may be incredibly vindictive and immediately seek revenge, possibly mass murder in retaliation for his incarceration. Likewise, the 25 year sentenced individual might wholly repent after five years, and thus sit in prison for another twenty with no rehabilitative meaning, he just rots to serve as an example to others. You n…

> The attempted murderer after 10 years may be incredibly vindictive and immediately seek revenge, possibly mass murder in retaliation for his incarceration.

I'll take that chance. For every how many people that just spent a decade in jail do you think there will be one that manages to squeak by observation and hearings for a decade?

How many people would you be prepared to jail to save one life of an innocent person?

Re: My life after 44 years in prison

#47

Post by MrJagil » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 10:47 PM UTC

parennoob wrote: post #20

rayiner wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most states, the criminal laws are influenced by the Model Penal Code (MPC). The MPC punishes attempts as severely as completed crimes. The MPC approach is logical. Criminal law punishes moral culpability, not bad outcomes. That's why the act of killing another human may be anything from murder to no crime at all depending on the killer's intent. A would-be murderer's moral culpability is not lessened by the fact…

Very good point. I thought of this by applying it to myself – if someone attempted to murder me, but did not succeed, would I want them to be put away for a very long time? You bet.

I get that you're trying to equate attempted and real murder but it sounds very short-sighted and it does not do any argument justice that you isolate such a serious incident from the countless factors that are surely involved (motive being prominent, but i feel a discussion of that would also turn simplistic).

For the sake of future discussions, just remember that these people are real, and there's mostly likely tremendous misfortune behind such a heinous act as murder.

No one gains anything from these 44 year long sentences.[0] He's been incapacitated for his entire life, and because of that, is seemingly going to be it for the rest of his life.

[0] Obviously if he's diagnosed as completely deranged there might be an issue of public safety.

Re: My life after 44 years in prison

#48

Post by ChrisLomont » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 10:50 PM UTC

webo wrote: post #4

This man's experience and attitude towards life is amazing. Very inspiring. Props to him. 44 years is ridiculous amount of time for an assault when others are getting away with a few years for an actual murder or slavery. Don't prisons have common areas with TVs, radios, or magazines? It worries me that inmates don't have access to basic development as a human/society.

Who got a few years for murder?

Re: My life after 44 years in prison

#49

Post by jacquesm » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 10:56 PM UTC

MrJagil wrote: post #47

parennoob wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very good point. I thought of this by applying it to myself – if someone attempted to murder me, but did not succeed, would I want them to be put away for a very long time? You bet.

I get that you're trying to equate attempted and real murder but it sounds very short-sighted and it does not do any argument justice that you isolate such a serious incident from the countless factors that are surely involved (motive being prominent, but i feel a discussion of that would also turn simplistic). For the sake of future discussions, just remember that these people are real, and there's mostly likely tre…

And in that case you'd be looking at hospitalization rather than jail. (Though the person would still not have freedom of movement it would be a whole lot better for them.)

Re: My life after 44 years in prison

#50

Post by avmich » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 11:03 PM UTC

dayon wrote: post #2

Out of society since 1975 and landing in Times Square... that's gotta be like stepping out into an alien world.

We as the society can probably learn a lot from these people. A sort of live time capsules, you know, providing some "more stable" benchmarks for our life, habits, intents.