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I was falsely arrested

iwasfalselyarrested.com

11–20 of 108 posts

Re: I was falsely arrested

#11
post #7

This man was clearly and obviously wronged by law enforcement and the justice system, and it's nice to know that at the very least he won in the end. With that said, I can't agree with the statement "If the cops had done their job, two people wouldn't be dead." That line of reasoning, when extended, can be applied to pretty much anything. The only people culpable for the deaths of the two people robbing the gas stati…

I get what you're trying to say, but you're wrong. Culpability is not the same as cause and effect. Either you are conflating the two concepts, or you are assuming that someone else is conflating the two concepts.

"If those cops had done their job, two people wouldn't be dead." This is a statement of cause and effect. It is not a statement of culpability.

Imagine that I said, "If you had remembered to lock your car, your backpack wouldn't have been stolen out of the trunk." You can accuse me of "victim-blaming" or you can realize that I'm not stupid and I actually do understand that the thief is to blame for the theft.

Re: I was falsely arrested

#12

There really seems to be a disparity between perceived and actual justice in the United States. I bet 95‰ of the population of the US thinks all people in prison deserve to be there and the miscarriages they hear about are the only ones that occur. I dread to think how many innocent people are actually in US jails.

> I bet 95‰ of the population of the US thinks all people in prison deserve to be there

Maybe 95% of the middle- to upper-class white population of the US. (But probably not even that, unless by "deserve to be there" you mean "actually broke the law for which they were sentenced" rather than "deserve to be in prison for breaking the law for which they were sentenced"; I mean, its not like drug prohibition is that popular even among that group.)

EDIT: just realized that the parent actually says 95‰ (95 per mille) not 95%. That's equivalent to 9.5%. That may be correct, actually, but is probably not what was intended.

Re: I was falsely arrested

#13
post #9

There really seems to be a disparity between perceived and actual justice in the United States. I bet 95‰ of the population of the US thinks all people in prison deserve to be there and the miscarriages they hear about are the only ones that occur. I dread to think how many innocent people are actually in US jails.

There is probably a 3-5% error rate in the justice system. At least that is the academic consensus currently. 3-5% of 2.3 million prisoners is 70~115 thousand people.

If there is a 4% error rate with prisoners on death row, I'd imagine that it's even higher in the general prison population (because they're subject to less scrutiny?).

Re: I was falsely arrested

#14
post #5

There really seems to be a disparity between perceived and actual justice in the United States. I bet 95‰ of the population of the US thinks all people in prison deserve to be there and the miscarriages they hear about are the only ones that occur. I dread to think how many innocent people are actually in US jails.

95% of white people maybe black people have no alternative to understanding how the world really works

This is an incredibly racist way to look at the issue.

Re: I was falsely arrested

#15
post #9

There really seems to be a disparity between perceived and actual justice in the United States. I bet 95‰ of the population of the US thinks all people in prison deserve to be there and the miscarriages they hear about are the only ones that occur. I dread to think how many innocent people are actually in US jails.

There is probably a 3-5% error rate in the justice system. At least that is the academic consensus currently. 3-5% of 2.3 million prisoners is 70~115 thousand people.

Depends on type of error. I have heard estimates as low as 50% when you include procedural issues. As in would they have gone to prison with competent legal counsel.

Re: I was falsely arrested

#16

I'm happy that this guy finally got out of jail. Here's hoping he doesn't let this terrible tragedy hurt him the rest of his life. I support any reasonable thing the public can do to help folks like him out. We live in a security state, and video cameras everywhere are beginning to show how rotten it is in places. Having said all of that, I do not want to see us become self-indulgent with pity. There are 300 million…

Why are you bringing it up if you don't think it applies in this situation? I always get nervous when people say stuff like this because it's like... he says he doesn't think it's a small problem, but then the only thing he's talking about is how we have to be careful making claims about scale... Why would he bring that up except to question the scale of the problem? But I must be missing something, because you expli…

Whenever I read something that emotionally moves me, it sets off my bullshit detector. That's especially true when it's something I'm predisposed to believing.

There is no context here, just a sad story. You can post a thousand of these stories. It all adds to to a bunch of "There's a bunch of sad stories in the world" without any other data.

It's odd, because I always get nervous about making comments like I did. People are much more interested in "who's side is he on" than critically looking at the information put in front of them.

Look, if consuming endless stories about the pain, sadness, and righteous anger that topic X provokes, all without any kind of context, then have fun with it. I gotta point out the logical problems, though, no matter which side of the discussion I'm on.

Re: I was falsely arrested

#17

I'm happy that this guy finally got out of jail. Here's hoping he doesn't let this terrible tragedy hurt him the rest of his life. I support any reasonable thing the public can do to help folks like him out. We live in a security state, and video cameras everywhere are beginning to show how rotten it is in places. Having said all of that, I do not want to see us become self-indulgent with pity. There are 300 million…

Why are you bringing it up if you don't think it applies in this situation? I always get nervous when people say stuff like this because it's like... he says he doesn't think it's a small problem, but then the only thing he's talking about is how we have to be careful making claims about scale... Why would he bring that up except to question the scale of the problem? But I must be missing something, because you expli…

Reflexive defense of authority is a pretty common pattern. People doing it don't realize they're doing it, or they wouldn't. That's one of the fundamental mechanisms of racism, among other unpleasant things. Hardly anyone thinks of themselves as racist, so when they make a racist argument (not saying this one is, just making a broader point), they don't think it's racist - they think it's all about the equality.

The classic example of that is the "All lives matter" response to "black lives matter". Saying black lives matter is a response to the daily bigotry and institutional racism that black people in America suffer, every day. Responding to that with "all lives matter" is a way of disempowering even the acknowledgement of institutional racism, of denying the unique (and uniquely negative) experience of being black. But it sounds like equality. People who say it don't say it to be racist - quite the opposite. Being racist by acting not-racist. It's ironic and strange-loopy, but that's how it works.

Take it back to the post you're responding to. It's a reflexive defense of authority, the "few bad apples" argument. The first response to obvious institutional racism (really, this case boils down to "all blacks look alike") is to shout "Hey, the System isn't broken!" It's not broken if you're white, and you don't recognize how it treats people who aren't like you. It disacknowledges the experience of the individual at the hands of the System, by making sure defending the System comes first.

Thinking about this stuff is hard. Just watch... this comment will get a lot of downvotes, for even saying this stuff out loud.

Re: I was falsely arrested

#18
Four genuine questions:

1. Isn't there something called prosecutorial misconduct? Surely that would apply now.

2. Isn't it defamation to say someone committed a crime when they clearly didn't?

3. Being incarcerated must be awful, especially if you are falsely imprisoned. There must be legally available remedies for false arrest and miscarriage of justice?

4. His defender was manifestly inadequate. What sort of liability is there for deliberately not defending your client properly?

Re: I was falsely arrested

#19
The state needs to financially make whole persons who are wrongly arrested. There needs to be a standard set of damages that get paid out to someone who is in jail wrongfully.

I would propose that the state owes you double the highest paid salary that you have earned in your career for the duration of your stay in prison. This is to both make a person whole for their missed earnings, and to repair the damages that having an arrest on your record does to your future earning potential. Further, there should be a minimum cap of $5,000 / month, and a maximum cap of $1M / year. Finally, I would propose that this value goes up by 10% each year to account for potential career growth over that time.

Not only does this attempt to make someone whole for the time that they lost, but it puts a real financial burden on the state for making these kinds of errors. Right now, the state faces almost no downsides other than the cost of housing someone in a prison.

Edit: as noted in a comment below "Wrongfully arrested" may be more appropriate read as "Wrongfully jailed". This program or policy would be targeted at affecting prosecutorial misconduct and not police misconduct. While police misconduct is still a massive issue I think there are different policies that should be used to address police misconduct.

Re: I was falsely arrested

#20
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is probably a 3-5% error rate in the justice system. At least that is the academic consensus currently. 3-5% of 2.3 million prisoners is 70~115 thousand people.

If there is a 4% error rate with prisoners on death row, I'd imagine that it's even higher in the general prison population (because they're subject to less scrutiny?).

So long as the majority population deems an error rate to be preferable to letting the more extreme criminals (rapists, murderers, arsonists, blah) 'walk free', there will be an error rate.

I'd sooner let ten all-but-certain criminals walk free than convict even a single innocent person. But I am not most people. Furthermore, there is not a good demonstration that decreasing the error rate (which would require imprisoning less actual criminals whom lack certain evidence, etc.) is beneficial for society as a whole. I mean, there's no studies showing it is any worse off either, but I digress.

It's not an argument you can make to most people - they'd rather "keep their family safe from potential murderers" than "not be sentenced to 20 years in prison for a crime they didn't do" because they cannot imagine themselves being sentenced for 20 years for a crime they didn't do but they can imagine a criminal harming their family.

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