The Yale Problem Begins in High School • Hacker News Board

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#101

Post by thomnottom » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 6:35 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #49

kod wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, social norms that - you're not allowed to show emotion (unless it's anger) - you must get all of your emotional needs met through first your mother, and then your girlfriend / wife are what creates dysfunctional men.

As a tall, large framed man, I often get very strong negative reactions when I am physically fit. And I mean fit not weightlifting bulk. Keeping short hair and a clean shave while swimming regularly is a very utilitarian choice, but you get even stronger negative reactions. The way out? Growing long hair transformed rather negative skin head connotations with a far more teasing Fabio. Our culture really looks down on…

As someone with a full beard, a father who wears a full beard, and several friends with full beards, what is the problem with them?

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#102

Post by elbigbad » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 6:36 PM UTC

mrtron wrote: post #61

douche wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, that parallels my experience pretty closely, as an undergraduate at an Ivy League college that was in the news recently. There might have been about a hundred people on campus that were actively interested in protesting things (what things?, all the things ). For the most part, everybody else is there to go to class, learn, do their own thing, and drink too much beer on the weekends/Wednesdays/Mondays, etc. This…

This might be the first time I have seen someone from an Ivy league college not mention the name (intentionally). Why not just say X/Y/Z?

I don't think specifying exactly which school, or even which "group of three" schools is really germane to the point being made. Probably "Ivy League" wasn't even especially relevant, but is a way to quickly state what probably was relevant, a "top school."

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#103

Post by ffn » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 6:37 PM UTC

kelukelugames wrote: post #40

jseliger wrote: post #12

I've taught at two colleges and based on my (purely) anecdotal experiences and attention to the climate, I'd say that the number of students and faculty interested in stifling or censoring ideas is small but also very, very noisy. They also have no sense of humor and college administrators as a group have no sense of humor or perspective, and they're chronically worried about accusations of indifference or insensitiv…

Which ideas do they want to censor? Edit: I'm looking for specific examples. Otherwise we are just feigning outrage. I had an ex co-worker who confided in me that he doesn't like gay people. I was very happy that he couldn't say that in public.

Well according to that Vox article about that liberal prof who got censored (and links therein) linked by the parent comment, the following things:

1. works of Edward Said

2. works of Mark Twain

3. works of Upton Sinclar

4. works of Maureen Tkacik

5. Ovid's Metamorphoses

6. The movie Avengers

7. Debates about abortion

8. Some "Afrobeat" band that had too many white people in it

9. Some male professor who was "creepy" at a conference

10. Asking harassment victims for proof

And if I recall correctly from pop culture several months back:

11. The comedic act of Jerry Seinfeld

12. The comedic act of Chris Rock

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#104

Post by defen » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 6:37 PM UTC

albedoa wrote: post #88

tosseraccount wrote: post #13

Look how Silicon Valley folks treated Brandon Eich when he made a donation to the majority side in a California proposition. It's not just academia where you can't speak freely.

The conversations about Brandon Eich and his views regrettably died down before the Donald Sterling incident. I am still curious today where defenders of Eich fall in the controversy over Sterling. Will anyone who defends Eich or is critical of his detractors come out and say that Sterling should not have received the wrath of the media and public and should not have been punished for expressing his views? Or does yo…

Donald Sterling, 80 year old man in the early stages of Alzheimer's, has a private one-on-one conversation with a "trusted" person secretly recorded by that person, which results in his being banned for life from the NBA and forced to sell his team. To me that's literally one step away from thought-crime. If we had magical mind-reading technology that could prove Donald Sterling was prejudiced against black people, but he never took any actions[1] or spoke any words based on that, should we strip him of his team?

[1] I know about the housing discrimination lawsuit; I'm leaving it out of this analysis because the NBA clearly didn't care about it until the secret recording made Sterling a pariah.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#105

Post by alexandercrohde » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 6:38 PM UTC

Thank you for posting this article. I've often felt the "walking on eggshells" phenomenon you describe, but I've never even felt able to call it out without risking being labeled an "enemy" of a cause. Seems you found a great way to do so.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#106

Post by rewqfdsa » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 6:38 PM UTC

realityking wrote: post #31

ccernaf wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty disappointed in the article and the comments, and how like Reddit this website is turning out to be. I'm not going to make any judgements (though I really really am), but this same article has been posted to 10 subreddits, among them such gems as: SJWsAtWork, ThisIsNotASafeSpace, sjsucks, and sjwhate.

How is the fact that the article has been posted to less than agreeable subreddits an indication of it's quality or the validity of the arguments and opinion in it?

Besides, what makes those subreddits "less than agreeable"? I think they're important. Social justice is cancer.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#107

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 6:40 PM UTC

ElComradio wrote: post #98

dragonwriter wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As currently stands, you can stand in the town square and promote affirmative action it would be very risky legally to fire you. But if you get up and argue for the repeal of some affirmative action legislation you can be safely fired with no objection from legal. Legally , promoting either of those opinions is subject to exactly the same degree of protection. The willingness of a particular employer to accept the…

That in practice it does not work as intended means it is bad law and needs tweaked. One way would be to say that all behavior "off the clock" and all attributes of a person not related to the job are protected. Another way would be to say nothing is protected. Right now we have a middle ground that plays favorites.

> That in practice it does not work as intended means it is bad law and needs tweaked.

In what specific, concrete ways does it not work out the way you think it is intended?

> One way would be to say that all behavior "off the clock" and all attributes of a person not related to the job are protected. Another way would be to say nothing is protected.

Those are obviously potential rules, but I don't see that either of them is closer to any reasonable interpretation of the intended result that antidiscrimination laws are intended to serve.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#108

Post by rewqfdsa » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 6:43 PM UTC

richard_mcp wrote: post #76

derptron wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I was originally going to lump this article in with other "men's rights movement" stuff" What?

Normally if I read an article about the men's right movement, it ends up being slightly malicious or dismissive of other movements like feminism. I don't disagree with a lot of their points, but there often seems to be a thread of misogyny just under the surface which makes me less likely to take them seriously.

> it ends up being slightly malicious or dismissive of other movements like feminism

When feminiism has become a movement against truth and against half the population, what do you expect?

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#109

Post by Jtsummers » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 6:44 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #49

kod wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, social norms that - you're not allowed to show emotion (unless it's anger) - you must get all of your emotional needs met through first your mother, and then your girlfriend / wife are what creates dysfunctional men.

As a tall, large framed man, I often get very strong negative reactions when I am physically fit. And I mean fit not weightlifting bulk. Keeping short hair and a clean shave while swimming regularly is a very utilitarian choice, but you get even stronger negative reactions. The way out? Growing long hair transformed rather negative skin head connotations with a far more teasing Fabio. Our culture really looks down on…

I think this depends strongly on where you are.

I'm in the southeast, here a shaved (or nearly shaved) head and a full beard (if the guy can grow it, goatees otherwise) are incredibly common, and (mostly) disjoint from the skinhead crowd.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#110

Post by rmxt » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 6:45 PM UTC

rewqfdsa wrote: post #106

realityking wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is the fact that the article has been posted to less than agreeable subreddits an indication of it's quality or the validity of the arguments and opinion in it?

Besides, what makes those subreddits "less than agreeable"? I think they're important. Social justice is cancer.

The extreme of both sides of this debate, as illustrated in your post and in the actions of the most egregious student complaints at Yale, lack the nuance needed to find a healthy compromise. Those subreddits are "less than agreeable" because they advocate outlandish responses to perhaps slightly less outlandish beliefs.