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The Yale Problem Begins in High School

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Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironic that you've censored yourself rather than state what he donated money towards.

I think they're trying to make the point that it's not relevant.

Like, if he had donated to Save Kittens & Dogs foundation no one would have cared.

So yeah, it's obviously relevant and I doubt they were making any specific point.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#52
post #21
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. It is baffling to me that nobody seems to seriously consider that this war on men/boys is what creates this weird and uncomfortable social dynamic. Masculinity is not something to be feared or ashamed of, teaching that is what creates dysfunctional men.

No, social norms that - you're not allowed to show emotion (unless it's anger) - you must get all of your emotional needs met through first your mother, and then your girlfriend / wife are what creates dysfunctional men.

You're oversimplifying "social norms" to the point where you completely neglect the emotional outlets that males DO use.

Outlets (like male-only spaces for one, or sports, for another) that have been demonized by those same people who create this generalized talking point. Many of our boys have lost that outlet. Or don't even know it exists anymore.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#53

Look how Silicon Valley folks treated Brandon Eich when he made a donation to the majority side in a California proposition. It's not just academia where you can't speak freely.

Ironic that you've censored yourself rather than state what he donated money towards.

While simultaneously appealing to a majority.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#54
post #26
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is not speech, it's money. People were angry at Eich because he spent money opposing a cause they supported. Brandon Eich is not an example of anything this article is about. It's much more straightforward: if you do things people don't like, those people won't like you.

Brandon Eich episode speaks volumes, esp. since he was at the winning side of the Popular Vote. Tinder did not walk away for CA after Prop 8 was won. I really do not know a single state including CA and OR, where gay marriage actually garnered Popular majority. Now the debate about whether something like that should be up for Vote is different and one I have no much domain knowledge. The fact was Brandon Eich's polit…

The "PC vocal minority" were Mozilla's own employees and contributors. You can say what you like about the California electorate as a whole but to be against gay marriage in San Francisco is to be an asshole. Eich should have known he was endangering Mozilla's ability to attract and retain talent and outside contributions.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#56

I was originally going to lump this article in with other "men's rights movement" stuff until I saw the author was Jonathan Haidt. I had the honor to take Psyc 101 with Prof. Haidt years ago at the University of Virginia. He was a wonderful teacher who expected the best out of his students. He struck me as a very intelligent man who had put a lot of thought into both what he taught as well as his opinions. When he br…

"I was originally going to lump this article in with other "men's rights movement" stuff"

What?

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#57

Look how Silicon Valley folks treated Brandon Eich when he made a donation to the majority side in a California proposition. It's not just academia where you can't speak freely.

The fact that other people are free to speak against you does not mean that you can't speak freely. Free speech does not mean freedom from having your speech acts criticized (quite the opposite; it includes freedom of others to criticize your speech acts.) And, yes, it means that your speech acts may affect your ability to hold a job where you are one of the major public faces of an organization (such as its CEO) and…

I'm not a master enough of this subject to form a detailed argument, but I hope we can agree there is a line somewhere between civil criticism and a lynching.

Especially, IMO, in the case of a ballot issue. Are we trying to coerce people to vote the way we want them to? That's unconscionable to me.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a frequently repeated argument and I find it less and less convincing. It is true that America's constitution only guarantees the congress will not abridge the freedom of speech. However, an argument could be made that in a free society there's a fundamental right to have a dissenting opinion or voice; a right that is not codified by the constitution because it's simply irrelevant to a constitution. It seems…

A way to address this might be to add "political opinions" to the list of protected classes. It is undeniably bad for a democracy (I know I know, we aren't technically a democracy) where people aren't free in practice to discuss contentious issues. As currently stands, you can stand in the town square and promote affirmative action it would be very risky legally to fire you. But if you get up and argue for the repeal…

> As currently stands, you can stand in the town square and promote affirmative action it would be very risky legally to fire you. But if you get up and argue for the repeal of some affirmative action legislation you can be safely fired with no objection from legal.

Legally, promoting either of those opinions is subject to exactly the same degree of protection. The willingness of a particular employer to accept the legal risk maybe different between them, but that's a different issue than the law itself.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a frequently repeated argument and I find it less and less convincing. It is true that America's constitution only guarantees the congress will not abridge the freedom of speech. However, an argument could be made that in a free society there's a fundamental right to have a dissenting opinion or voice; a right that is not codified by the constitution because it's simply irrelevant to a constitution. It seems…

> However, an argument could be made that in a free society there's a fundamental right to have a dissenting opinion or voice Of course, there is a fundamental right to have (and express) a dissenting opinion or voice. There is also a fundamental right to have (and express) displeasure with an opinion or voice, whether dissenting or not. And there is no fundamental entitlement to a job whose responsibilities include…

The problem is that the current system in practice legally protects certain opinions. E.g. If Eich was pro gay marriage and vocally so, firing him on that basis would have been very risky legally. Especially if he was gay, it would probably be impossible to fire him without losing an expensive lawsuit afterwards.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#60

I've taught at two colleges and based on my (purely) anecdotal experiences and attention to the climate, I'd say that the number of students and faculty interested in stifling or censoring ideas is small but also very, very noisy. They also have no sense of humor and college administrators as a group have no sense of humor or perspective, and they're chronically worried about accusations of indifference or insensitiv…

Which ideas do they want to censor? Edit: I'm looking for specific examples. Otherwise we are just feigning outrage. I had an ex co-worker who confided in me that he doesn't like gay people. I was very happy that he couldn't say that in public.

The no-good verybad wrongthink ideas, of course. What are you, some kind of dissident?
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