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Difficult Times at Our Credit Union

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Re: Difficult Times at Our Credit Union

#31

The regulatory burden facing credit unions from the NCUA is not near as bad as what banks face from the FDIC. Right now the FDIC regulators take the stance that your bank is "guilty until proven innocent." One bank was getting examined to determine if it was engaging in unfair lending practices. The regulators pulled 6 loans at random from the bank's portfolio. 3 loans were to men, 3 to women. Then they looked at the…

Could you provide a source for your anecdote? I find it hard to believe that the FDIC would look at a mere six loans when their own guidelines [1] call for at least eight, and that's with a population of a mere ten loans. For a higher level of precision on any decent loan portfolio the sample size will be at least 50. Furthermore, having dealt with regulators before, there's always an opportunity to provide written r…

It was an anecdote from Bill Goedken at the 2015 CUNA CFO Conference. It was from the session "Mining Gold – New Trends and Discoveries in ‘Big Data’ That Will Help Your Credit Union Compete". I've linked to the slides ([1]) but there was no mention of the anecdote in them.

[1] - http://www.cunacouncils.org/cuna/assets/files/144820_Goedken...

Re: Difficult Times at Our Credit Union

#34
post #28

My guess is that, given the choice, practically everyone would prefer to bank with a member-owned cooperative, i.e. a credit union, than a for-profit bank owned by outside shareholders. I mean, think about it: sneaky fees and outrageous surcharges are anathema, because it's more important for members to be satisfied with their experience than to wring out every nickel and dime of profit at the expense of customer sat…

Where the laws are more relaxed, credit unions can be competitive. The Desjardins credit union (technically a federation of credit unions) based out in Quebec is a good example, they have 5.8m members and 254B$ of assets. They even have branches in the US, but those are chartered as banks and owned by the federation.

That said, it's hard for a cooperatively structured to be nimble and the bureaucracy and internal politics are legendary.

Re: Difficult Times at Our Credit Union

#35
I am a member of a credit union and support them whole-heartedly.

And I think it's great that we scrutinize new wanna-be banks and make sure they aren't a pump-and-dump fraud scheme. Because in the absence of such regulation, something like 100.0% of new banks would be pump-and-dump fraud schemes.

Which one is more likely, assuming you know nothing about Kahle: that Kahle is trying to make an honest buck serving an underserved market, or that he's trying to copy what this guy is doing:

http://business.financialpost.com/news/fp-street/the-russian...

"People are falling over themselves to sign up."

If you aren't prepared to get your ass ridden by regulators, you aren't prepared to be a bank. You aren't good enough to offer banking services to the public.

Re: Difficult Times at Our Credit Union

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The primary motivation was lending, as mentioned several times in the article.

He mentioned that he didn't want to start a predatory subprime loan shop. He wanted to offer non-predatory lower interest loans to higher risk clients, in concert with banking services that are difficult to provide to higher risk immigrant clients like checking and savings accounts and debit cards. But the NCUA wouldn't allow him to set interest rates lower or offer checking/debit accounts.

> But the NCUA wouldn't allow him to set interest rates lower

That indicates that those rates aren't actually predatory at all, but required in order to defend against default.

Which really isn't all that surprising: in the case of payday loans and such, there are many operators, and anyone who could lessen his profit-per-loan could very easily snap up a great number of customers, increasing his net profit. That no-one has done this indicates either collusion or that the rates are fair.

Re: Difficult Times at Our Credit Union

#38

The system is so broken it's not even funny.

The numbers speak for themselves, a sharp decline in the number of credit unions for every year since NCUA was formed. It's hard to imagine that this wasn't the intention.

I posted a similar reply in the other CU thread, sorry for the repetition.

You can only draw that conclusion if you put on blinders and look at it one-dimensionally. Lots of things happened around the same time that NCUA was founded. Visa had turned into a member-licensing system, and consumer credit was become much easier to get. Computerization started happening and made banking operations more scalable.

The bread and butter of credit unions were small, workplace communities that offered savings and small loans. Most didn't even offer checking accounts. In the days when many blue-collar workers with variable wages were unable to get bank credit, they offered a accessible way to get small personal and secured loans and save. My father in law was a fireman, and there was a department credit union. The firehouse captains would come around with a boot and envelope on payday to collect deposits. New folks on the job would get loans for uniforms and boots in advance of reimbursement by the department. To 18 year old firemen in the 1960s, no consumer credit was available.

Now, consumer credit is trivial to obtain, so that market is drying up.

You also have to look at small credit union operations. When they started diversifying into stuff like auto-loans, many began to fail because they weren't equipped to handle the more sophisticated business model. They were, after all member owned cooperatives doing small loans. NCUA ended up holding the bag for those lost deposits, and tightened up standards, which in turn led to more CU shutdowns and mergers.

A very similar story applies to the former bedrock of american banking -- the small savings & loan. As their business because commoditized and the commercial banks consolidated, their oxygen got cut off.

Re: Difficult Times at Our Credit Union

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The primary motivation was lending, as mentioned several times in the article.

He mentioned that he didn't want to start a predatory subprime loan shop. He wanted to offer non-predatory lower interest loans to higher risk clients, in concert with banking services that are difficult to provide to higher risk immigrant clients like checking and savings accounts and debit cards. But the NCUA wouldn't allow him to set interest rates lower or offer checking/debit accounts.

> loans to higher risk clients,

sub prime lending then?

Re: Difficult Times at Our Credit Union

#40
post #28

My guess is that, given the choice, practically everyone would prefer to bank with a member-owned cooperative, i.e. a credit union, than a for-profit bank owned by outside shareholders. I mean, think about it: sneaky fees and outrageous surcharges are anathema, because it's more important for members to be satisfied with their experience than to wring out every nickel and dime of profit at the expense of customer sat…

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