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The End of the Internet Dream

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Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#101

Post by pspace »

The internet dream is almost here! Patents and IP have lost their bite compared to the 80's (continuing to do so) and piracy is easier than ever.

More countries are participating in the global conversation than ever before.

Enhancements in security and privacy are evident and improving (albeit slowly).

The internet is becoming a lot less like TV and will continue to do so. People care more about commenting and creating content. They care about participating more than they ever did and this is increasing. In fact, this is a problem because the quality of participation is diminishing as EVERYONE jumps in.

Existing power structures are not being retained. As the internet enters the equation new laws are being put into place. Look at Uber, Lyft, and Airbnb. The only difference in how they are regulated is basically because they are internet oriented.

Yes we still have work. Infrastructure is still a big issue. If we want to reduce centralization, we need better infrastructure and equal access to it. That one is very political.

We got this ;) Stay vigilant friends.

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#102

Post by Margh »

beatpanda wrote: post #77
mbrock wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't "we" be more likely to unionize if our wages were bad? And are unions good at this stuff? Here in Sweden, they seem to be mostly aligned with the industrial profit motive. For example, the big metal workers' union supported extending our large arms export deal with Saudi Arabia, since it employs thousands of people.

Yes, historically unions don't get organuzed unless conditions are bad to begin with. But look, what if we just didn't use the word "union"? What if we were talking about a professional organization like the bar association that set standards of what its members can and can't do, what is and is not ethical work? That set certain expectations of providing your otherwise very expensive services for free to people who n…

I really like this idea.

Without knowing too much about bar associations I feel like a programmer association with a code of ethics similar to the ABA model rules (perhaps including the Six Fixes[0]) would be a great start to reining in privacy violations.

I immediately see that it would need to be government mandated for it to have any effect, and given that many governments routinely violate these terms I don't know how it could be enforced.

[0] - http://idlewords.com/six_fixes.html

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#103

Post by eevilspock »

spython wrote: post #83
mdpopescu wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The market" is people. You just said that people don't care about good or evil. I submit that this is an exaggeration.

The market is not people, nor was it ever about people. It is about money and capital, and capital is not governed by moral principles.

Oh the market is about people when it commoditizes them, and that just makes the consequences even less moral.

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#104

Post by toxik »

Eupolemos wrote: post #81
necessity wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, socialism has worked so well throughout history and capitalism so bad.

Socialism works pretty well in Scandinavia (understatements may be present). Lot's of dictatorships have called themselves "socialist", maybe you are confusing the term? Capitalism and socialism works exceptionally well hand-in-hand.

I think, to put it short, the middle path is the right one: partway socialist, partway capitalist. The capitalist side has had an upswing in Sweden recently, and the development it started is noticeable. Socalism can and does lead to stagnation, while capitalism can and does lead to overexploitation.

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#105

Post by jacobush »

qznc wrote: post #69
TeMPOraL wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> corporations and business models. They're just driven by demand. It's not some shady nebulous force at work trying to screw everything and everyone. Oh it's not shady in the sense that it has agency and decides to screw everything up. But it's very powerful and increasingly misaligned with the interest of humans. Being driven by demand does not map well to the shared wishes and morals of humanity, only if because o…

See also Meditations on Moloch for a more poetic desription: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/

That is such an awesome text.

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#106

Post by tajen »

"At Google, women make up 30 percent of the company’s overall workforce, but hold only 17 percent of the company’s tech jobs"

Hence what? In France prison population is 96.5% male. Does it prove sexism? That's it, I quit reading women, they can't write without pulling the cover to themselves.

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#107

Post by calibraxis »

baddox wrote: post #58
fx85ms wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YES thanks for this! I've seen too many people justify something that could be considered immoral by invoking this "but it satisfies user needs" pseudo-argument.

I've seen a heck of a lot more people justify things by claiming to have objective moral knowledge. Throughout history, the most atrocious acts imaginable have been justified this way. I am much less worried about invoking the satisfaction of people's needs.

Capitalist morality merely poses as amoral. The moment you propose a more sensible alternative, you're hit by moral arguments about terrible things happening when you interfere with the invisible hand (of Providence).

When we mention "satisfying people's needs", those with more money get more satisfaction. That's how markets work. Like advertisers (corporations paying other corporations to spread propaganda), nation-states (which must control their populaces pretty much by definition), etc.

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#108

Post by tdkl »

tracker1 wrote: post #89
TeMPOraL wrote: post #8

The Internet Dream is sadly not compatibile with profit-driven world. We had some good times back when it all begun, because then nobody besides techies cared. Now that the Internet is a money making machine, there are tons of incentives to make it worse and little to make it better. In order to keep the corruption away, or maybe even limit it, all of us and our coworkers would have to start risking their livelihoods…

I don't think it's nearly as grim as you make it out to be... it's just as easy to deploy a personal not-profit driven application/bulletin-board or whatever on Amazon, Linode, DigitalOcean, Azure and many others as it has EVER been to start a project and deploy it online. People are choosing to use Facebook, Twitter and other sites... that doesn't stop anyone from doing other things. That said, I think some governme…

> People are choosing to use Facebook, Twitter and other sites

Which people, the early techies OP was talking about, or the other bunch who joined the Internet later on having no experience and knowledge how to use it to keep their privacy and maintain same responsibility for other online participants ?

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#109

Post by eevilspock »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #53
zipwitch wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A decent future for humanity is not compatible with a profit-driven world. The solution is to end the profit driven world in a way that will lead to a better future, because like it or not, the profit driven world IS ending.

Why is it not compatible? The profit driven world has lifted more humans out of poverty than any other system by leaps and bounds.

Feudalism may have lifted more humans out of poverty than any other system that came before it by leaps and bounds. It's a good thing we didn't decide to stop there.

Secondly, I'm not sure we should so quickly even concede your point. What if The Enlightenment, mathematics and science, and democracy were actually greater contributors to lifting humans out of poverty? All the greatest advancements in mathematics and science (think Einstein) don't appear to be profit driven.

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#110

Post by notahacker »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #27
brc wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you work for yourself, you're still working for someone else. An employee has 1 boss. An entrepreneur has a thousand, a million, whatever the number is. Working for cash means exchanging value with someone who gives you the cash. The concept of wage slavery is a tad insulting to those stuck in real slavery.

> The concept of wage slavery is a tad insulting to those stuck in real slavery. Most of the talk around "wage slavery" is about people who're going to spend the rest of their lives working hard for all their day on stuff that they don't like, for so little money that it barely allows them to stay fed and healthy. It's a different thing that the "real slavery"[0], but there are some important similarities - namely, p…

To be honest, I'm struggling to think of any profession which less resembles the concept of wage slavery than programming, Compared with other jobs it pays relatively high salaries, offers more opportunities for remote and flexible working, more opportunities as self-employed contractors and more opportunities to start companies that don't even rely on contracting for others.

In a company of any size, nobody has absolute agency and complete immunity from stupid shit that bosses envision, not even the zillionaire owners of the company who don't have to do performance reviews or attend standup meetings.

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