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Study Finds That Asians Take Fewest Vacation Days, Europeans Take Most

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Re: Study Finds That Asians Take Fewest Vacation Days, Europeans Take Most

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't bet on that.

Me neather, short term. But in the long run Capitalism will not want humans, we're too expensive. It also really makes no sense to work, I think this will become increasingly more evident. Note: Marx wouldn't agree with me. He would say that the rich will still have the means of production (automation), so the poor will still do stupid jobs to get paid that little to afford the products made by automation. It's basic…

Marx would probably have agreed with you, but see it as the reason for why a revolution is inevitable, and at the same time the criteria for what would make the success of a socialist revolution possible. From The German Ideology, part I, section A (Marx, 1845):

"This “alienation” (to use a term which will be comprehensible to the philosophers) can, of course, only be abolished given two practical premises. For it to become an “intolerable” power, i.e. a power against which men make a revolution, it must necessarily have rendered the great mass of humanity “propertyless,” and produced, at the same time, the contradiction of an existing world of wealth and culture, both of which conditions presuppose a great increase in productive power, a high degree of its development. And, on the other hand, this development of productive forces (which itself implies the actual empirical existence of men in their world-historical, instead of local, being) is an absolutely necessary practical premise because without it want is merely made general, and with destitution the struggle for necessities and all the old filthy business would necessarily be reproduced; and furthermore, because only with this universal development of productive forces is a universal intercourse between men established, which produces in all nations simultaneously the phenomenon of the “propertyless” mass (universal competition), makes each nation dependent on the revolutions of the others, and finally has put world-historical, empirically universal individuals in place of local ones. Without this, (1) communism could only exist as a local event; (2) the forces of intercourse themselves could not have developed as universal, hence intolerable powers: they would have remained home-bred conditions surrounded by superstition; and (3) each extension of intercourse would abolish local communism."

Basically his assumption was that it will never be possible or politically tenable under capitalism to change the system to channel enough capital back to the general population (e.g. lets say via taxes to fund basic income to a level equivalent to lost incomes) to allow people to continue to consume enough to allow manufacturers to continue to grow, and that the result would be ever greater cycles of economic crashes until the contradiction of capacity to create wealth coupled with unemployment and/or underpayment gets great enough to cause people to rise up against it.

Re: Study Finds That Asians Take Fewest Vacation Days, Europeans Take Most

#32
post #24
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just scary. It definitely shows how much culture can change/warp our ideas about existence. Although that few days off probably is a significant factor in heightened Japanese suicide rates.

Mind blowing (but not surprising) is how low Japan (and South Korea) ranks in terms of worker productivity. IIR, if South Koreans worked at a similar productivity as Norwegians, they could take half the week off with no effects at all on GDP. Japan is only slightly better. In other words, quite a bit of those long work hours are absolutely useless.

This is overly-simplistic, and misses three key points:

1) Labour productivity is measured as the _average_ output per worker, i.e. total output divided by total number of workers. It does not measure the _marginal_ output of an additional worker (i.e. the derivative of output with respect to number of workers).

2) Labour is not the only factor of production. There is also land, financial capital, technology, etc.

3) Haircuts in Norway cost more than haircuts in South Korea. Is a South Korean barber less productive than a Norwegian one?

Re: Study Finds That Asians Take Fewest Vacation Days, Europeans Take Most

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me neather, short term. But in the long run Capitalism will not want humans, we're too expensive. It also really makes no sense to work, I think this will become increasingly more evident. Note: Marx wouldn't agree with me. He would say that the rich will still have the means of production (automation), so the poor will still do stupid jobs to get paid that little to afford the products made by automation. It's basic…

Internet provides you access to unlimited amount of information that basically allows people to create their own automation solutions. Why do you have to depend on rich to provide it ? The whole idea of Rich and Poor is based on Scarcity of goods. When we enter the era of full automation, we will be able to convert Energy into any form of product without human intervention. Energy + AI = Products.

> The whole idea of Rich and Poor is based on Scarcity of goods.

No, actually, it's based on ownership of the means of production.

Re: Study Finds That Asians Take Fewest Vacation Days, Europeans Take Most

#34
post #27

I know that correlation does not imply causation, but EU GDP growth is the lowest in the world [1], while Asian is the highest. 1. https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/economic-data/economic-dat...

The EU block's GDP is also the highest in the world though, with little room to grow.

Furthermore, the only Asian country if comparable GOP/capita is Japan which has smaller growth than Europe for two decades...

Re: Study Finds That Asians Take Fewest Vacation Days, Europeans Take Most

#35
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just scary. It definitely shows how much culture can change/warp our ideas about existence. Although that few days off probably is a significant factor in heightened Japanese suicide rates.

I wonder. Japan also has 16 national holidays in comparison with (for example) the US's 11.

The importance of that really depends on who observes holidays. There is no legal incentive for US employers to observe any. I don't know where your eleven come from, but that sounds like the Federal Government's number for its employees. Private employers typically observe 4-8, including Christmas.

Re: Study Finds That Asians Take Fewest Vacation Days, Europeans Take Most

#36
post #2

Japanese workers are offered an average of twenty days off each year and take only twelve, leaving eight unused vacation days lying on the table. No lie, that's a qualified success: it used to be 14 days offered and 8 exercised in Japan, as recently as a few years ago. (The 2006ish timeframe? Read it in a work-related report. [+]) [+] Proving once again that you can almost never underestimate how bad the Japanese wor…

At my company in Japan, we had 20 public holidays though. That's a lot more than we get in the US.

But those public holidays come at a cost -- trying to do any sort of activity during Golden Week is next to impossible because of overcrowding.

Re: Study Finds That Asians Take Fewest Vacation Days, Europeans Take Most

#37
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wait, (correctly) anticipating the result of a study is racism?

Yes because you don't have evidence to support your theory. You're generalizing with insufficient data.

I disagree.

It's not insufficient data, it's uncharacterized data.

If more-or-less everyone with exposure to both cultures is in broad agreement about the differences, that's not "insufficient". It's probably actually more data than any formal study would generate.

But it's also lower-quality data, with a greater chance of being distorted by various cognitive biases. Which means that it doesn't meet current regulatory standards[1] for use on large protected-class[2] groups of humans.

.

[1] as loosely and collectively defined by the morality police, loudest / most extreme non-ignorable activists, Internet Lynch Mob, etc

[2] which includes pretty much anything these days

Re: Study Finds That Asians Take Fewest Vacation Days, Europeans Take Most

#38
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just scary. It definitely shows how much culture can change/warp our ideas about existence. Although that few days off probably is a significant factor in heightened Japanese suicide rates.

I am not sure the days off to hours per week ratio for a sane life.. I.e. I hear 12 days off and I shrug. I hear 18 hour workdays and never seeing your family and my jaw drops. I think if I worked 20h weeks, 0 days off would be okay. You never get THAT burned out over a week that the weekend can't cure you. But if I worked 80 hour weeks, I would need 30 days off per year to stay long term sane.

I'd rather have shorter weeks and zero days off, but that just might be my personality. I hate the idea that once in a while I'll get a vacation that I'll enjoy half of and spend the last half dreading going back.

Re: Study Finds That Asians Take Fewest Vacation Days, Europeans Take Most

#39
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mind blowing (but not surprising) is how low Japan (and South Korea) ranks in terms of worker productivity. IIR, if South Koreans worked at a similar productivity as Norwegians, they could take half the week off with no effects at all on GDP. Japan is only slightly better. In other words, quite a bit of those long work hours are absolutely useless.

This is overly-simplistic, and misses three key points: 1) Labour productivity is measured as the _average_ output per worker, i.e. total output divided by total number of workers. It does not measure the _marginal_ output of an additional worker (i.e. the derivative of output with respect to number of workers). 2) Labour is not the only factor of production. There is also land, financial capital, technology, etc. 3)…

So if I understand correctly we should compare:

1. Median household income (which should mostly be wages and not land, financial capital, technology).

2. Divided by purchasing power parity (to normalize for different prices in the country).

3. Divided by average hours worked per week for households with median income.

This is however assuming that if an employee gets paid X (in purchasing power parity) for their work, then their generated value is some linear constant of X. I don't know how to compensate for the scenario where this is false.

Re: Study Finds That Asians Take Fewest Vacation Days, Europeans Take Most

#40
post #34
post #27

I know that correlation does not imply causation, but EU GDP growth is the lowest in the world [1], while Asian is the highest. 1. https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/economic-data/economic-dat...

The EU block's GDP is also the highest in the world though, with little room to grow. Furthermore, the only Asian country if comparable GOP/capita is Japan which has smaller growth than Europe for two decades...

South Korea has a similar GDP/capita to many European countries. Not the richer ones, but some countries in Southern or Eastern Europe.
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