Mark Zuckerberg Will Take Two Months Off from Facebook for Paternity Leave • Hacker News Board

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Will Take Two Months Off from Facebook for Paternity Leave

#141

Post by evanpw » Sat, Nov 21, 2015, 5:07 AM UTC

Turing_Machine wrote: post #61

SCAQTony wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...But how long will it take for paternal leave to trickle down to the largest employers in America who pay near or at minimum wage? 1) Wal-Mart Stores 2,200,000 2) Yum! Brands 523,000 3) McDonald's 440,000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_employers_in_t... IMHO a billionaire taking a two-month leave will not inspire a majority of the top 50 employers to allow their male workforce to take 2-months off. Y…

This is probably going to get me voted down, but maybe...just maybe ...you shouldn't be having kids if the only job you can get is McDonalds or Yum! Brands (i.e., Taco Bell, Pizza Hut, etc.). If you choose to have a child when your resources are that limited, your non-paternity leave is going to be among the least of the child's problems.

This argument proves too much. A minimum-wage US worker in 2015 has a higher standard of living than the vast majority of all human parents who have ever lived, or even the majority of parents currently living on Earth. Are you saying that almost all human reproduction so far has been a mistake?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Will Take Two Months Off from Facebook for Paternity Leave

#142

Post by dimdimdim » Sat, Nov 21, 2015, 5:08 AM UTC

The point is --- there was no real need to even mention this on an FB post! the CEO is also an employee and he could have done this more privately.

I hate it when top CEOs try to prove that love "work-life" balance when in reality once you reach the top, its always easy to do the "right thing" in any circumstance.

If she would have been pregnant when he just started FB, then would have taken more than 2 days off?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Will Take Two Months Off from Facebook for Paternity Leave

#143

Post by mikesickler » Sat, Nov 21, 2015, 5:09 AM UTC

Turing_Machine wrote: post #95

dionidium wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This and moralizing about the smoking and drinking of the lower classes sound reasonable, but they're basically non-starters. You don't stop having basic human desires when you're poor. And as long as people are having sex, some of them are going to have kids.

I'm not "moralizing" about anything. Effective birth control is readily available. I have no interest whatsoever in policing other people's sex lives. I'm just saying that if you work at McDonald's, you probably can't afford to have a child. Yes, there will be accidents, people who fall on hard times, etc., and I actually have no problem with social programs aimed at helping those people out. But that's not what the…

But it's okay for Facebook to bear the burden? What exactly are you objecting to here?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Will Take Two Months Off from Facebook for Paternity Leave

#144

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Nov 21, 2015, 5:15 AM UTC

zanny wrote: post #136

engi_nerd wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice, if you have enough savings to do it. Please don't forget that not everyone is fortunate enough to have enough savings to be able to miss three months worth of paychecks. I did, until I bought a house, sold it, and bought another in the course of a year due to escaping from a horrible job. I'm getting savings built back up again, and I can afford to miss a few paychecks now, but not at the 6 month level I had a…

> not everyone is fortunate enough to have enough savings to be able to miss three months worth of paychecks. Then, sorry to be a bearer of bad news, if they could not afford or save up in advance for three months , how in the world are they going to pay for a child for 18 years? Children in modern western nations are incredibly expensive. Often more expensive than a house. They are not a decision to be made lightly,…

[deleted]

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Will Take Two Months Off from Facebook for Paternity Leave

#145

Post by underwater » Sat, Nov 21, 2015, 5:15 AM UTC

robotresearcher wrote: post #81

seattle_spring wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then prepare to be amazed, because they actually have four months paid paternity leave.

I hope the environment is such that people feel they can use it without penalty. Anyone have experience?

I took a little over three months off when my first child was born, and am in the process of taking the full four months for my second child.

I know a half dozen people who have had children while working at Facebook and all of them have taken all (or almost all) of that time.

I never felt pressure not to take leave. The hardest part was convincing myself that things would keep running without me.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Will Take Two Months Off from Facebook for Paternity Leave

#146

Post by stickfigure » Sat, Nov 21, 2015, 5:18 AM UTC

veidr wrote: post #134

Turing_Machine wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably going to get me voted down, but maybe...just maybe ...you shouldn't be having kids if the only job you can get is McDonalds or Yum! Brands (i.e., Taco Bell, Pizza Hut, etc.). If you choose to have a child when your resources are that limited, your non-paternity leave is going to be among the least of the child's problems.

Ha ha! You probably should have been voted down, but OK, let's take a look at your idea. You are saying 1 out of 4 American workers shouldn't have kids[1]. If everybody followed your advice, a lot of pretty influential people wouldn't have been born: Steve Jobs, J.K. Rowling, Larry Ellison (OK maybe that works in your argument's favor). Jay Z. Abraham Lincoln. Barack Obama. I wouldn't be here, either; my dad was a sh…

The logical extension of this argument is that everyone on earth should be forced to have as many children as possible all the time, because - gasp - think of all the wonderful human beings that we're missing out on. In fact, all those women of childbearing age you see walking around without a baby in their womb are guilty of a certain kind of murder. Strap them down and get to work!

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Will Take Two Months Off from Facebook for Paternity Leave

#147

Post by droopybuns » Sat, Nov 21, 2015, 5:19 AM UTC

dimdimdim wrote: post #142

The point is --- there was no real need to even mention this on an FB post! the CEO is also an employee and he could have done this more privately. I hate it when top CEOs try to prove that love "work-life" balance when in reality once you reach the top, its always easy to do the "right thing" in any circumstance. If she would have been pregnant when he just started FB, then would have taken more than 2 days off?

I don't think what you're saying reflects reality. Anyone who is responsible for making payroll is experiencing a kind of pressure that most people will never know.

"United Continental Holdings Inc's (UAL.N) new chief executive has suffered a heart attack, a person familiar with the matter said on Friday, barely a month after he took on the job of improving the airline's profitability and reputation."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/16/us-unitedairlines-...

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Will Take Two Months Off from Facebook for Paternity Leave

#148

Post by windowsworkstoo » Sat, Nov 21, 2015, 5:20 AM UTC

zanny wrote: post #136

engi_nerd wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice, if you have enough savings to do it. Please don't forget that not everyone is fortunate enough to have enough savings to be able to miss three months worth of paychecks. I did, until I bought a house, sold it, and bought another in the course of a year due to escaping from a horrible job. I'm getting savings built back up again, and I can afford to miss a few paychecks now, but not at the 6 month level I had a…

> not everyone is fortunate enough to have enough savings to be able to miss three months worth of paychecks. Then, sorry to be a bearer of bad news, if they could not afford or save up in advance for three months , how in the world are they going to pay for a child for 18 years? Children in modern western nations are incredibly expensive. Often more expensive than a house. They are not a decision to be made lightly,…

> Children in modern western nations are incredibly expensive.

You hear this all the time, it just doesn't gel with my experience. I'd love to know how the various headlines that say "OMG 250K to raise a child till 18" come to that figure.

Because, really, they don't seem to cost much at all. They eat less (and hopefully for free for at least the first 6 months), their clothes are smaller and cost less (though yes, they do need them more frequently). Depending on where you live (Aus ftw), public schooling can be good and free.

Sure, when they get old they might piss and moan and "Want" various luxuries but that's the key isn't it - needs vs want. And by the age they start "wanting", typically the answer is "get a job".

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Will Take Two Months Off from Facebook for Paternity Leave

#149

Post by scurvy » Sat, Nov 21, 2015, 5:20 AM UTC

gkop wrote: post #122

mikekchar wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried to google my way through verifying your statement, but didn't get very far. The number of companies offering "unlimited" or "discretionary" leave is very small. LinkedIn is the only other company I could find that I'd even heard of. I could find no statistics length of vacation for any of the companies I found. Kickstarter removed it's "unlimited vacation" policy because it found that employees were not takin…

California requires employers to cash out unused vacation days to employees when they leave the company [0]. Therefore instead of giving a certain number of days, some sketchy companies have an "unlimited vacation" policy, so they can claim to offer great benefits, when they're really just trying to save money. The norm at these sketchy companies is definitely no more than 2-3 weeks vacation in practice. [0] http://w…

Correct. Since employees don't accrue vacation hours, companies are not required to carry the equivalent pay on their balance sheet as a liability. It varies state by state, but California (where most startups are currently located) does convert this liability to an employee cash out upon leaving the company.

Unlimited vacation means no accrual so no balance sheet hit. It's a sketchy way to save money while effectively hinting that you're not supposed to take vacation. At first, people took unlimited vacation at face value. Now, the industry largely knows that it is industry speak for "2-3 weeks vacation but up to manager discretion."

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Will Take Two Months Off from Facebook for Paternity Leave

#150

Post by mvc » Sat, Nov 21, 2015, 5:21 AM UTC

dimdimdim wrote: post #142

The point is --- there was no real need to even mention this on an FB post! the CEO is also an employee and he could have done this more privately. I hate it when top CEOs try to prove that love "work-life" balance when in reality once you reach the top, its always easy to do the "right thing" in any circumstance. If she would have been pregnant when he just started FB, then would have taken more than 2 days off?

If company executives behave like workaholics, it raises the pressure on everyone in the company to also be workaholics. IMO they have a duty to demonstrate work-life balance.