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Paly student tells of school stress

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Re: Paly student tells of school stress

#51

I pretty much coasted through H.S. ... There was pressure, but I mostly ignored it and did what I wanted. Depending on how much of my grade in a given class was testing vs. homework, which I rarely did, I would get an A/B usually. I played varsity football two years, band a year and jr rotc for three. In the end, I didn't go to college, straight out of H.S. or later. I spent a couple years doing artwork, and BBSing g…

Most humans find it very hard to resist social pressure. A whole society doing crazy things in lockstep - until the society is destroyed or otherwise comes to grief as a whole - is unfortunately a recurring theme in history.

I've seen it said that there are now helplines for teenagers in the position of 'I'm gay, and my crazy fundamentalist parents have kicked me out of the house or threatened to kill me'. Maybe things are at the point where we need helplines for teenagers in the position of 'my crazy helicopter parents are putting so much pressure on me that I'm thinking of committing suicide just so I don't have to go to school anymore'.

Re: Paly student tells of school stress

#52
post #37

Tl;dr Adolescence is hard. http://25iq.com/2015/11/14/charlie-munger-ama-how-does-charl...

Except, the article details specific conditions of the ultra-competitive environment in Palo Alto high schools. As someone raised in Iowa, I can assure you that this is not the universal adolescent experience.

You're completely right. And as someone raised in Detroit she will never have to experience my environment. You or I cannot truly understand how she feels. What is hard for her may be trivial to us and vice versa. Everything is relative.

“When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves…. Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms—to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.” - Viktor Frankl

Re: Paly student tells of school stress

#53
post #17

Education in Asia, especially the main cities in the developed nations (Shanghai, Singapore, Seoul etc. ) is pretty much exactly the same. There's many purposes to an education, manifest and overt ones. For example, keeping youths neatly congregated and managed in singular locations, socialisation into specific social archetypes of value etc. We may say that an education is about Finding Your Passion and Being An Edu…

The irony is that it's actually appallingly bad for capitalist society. That is, it was good for capitalist society in the nineteenth century when what the economy needed was people who were literate enough to read an instruction manual but broken enough to spend all day everyday on an assembly line carrying out the same hand motion over and over again without going mad from boredom. These days, the repetitive work h…

I agree that schools are doing a poor job at educating for practical applications but most of that comes from rewarding for satisfying arbitrary metrics and norms that don't really correlate with real world skills. Students being motivated and competing isn't really a bad thing if they were actually learning useful things.

Historically education-performace correlation worked because it turns out that smart kids are generally good at most things so having higher barriers to entry meant higher education was a good filter for general competence and motivation.

Nowadays the "everyone gets to college" system made the filter much less reliable but still left expectations from all those kids that entered college that they will be treated as previously top percentile. Also it decreased the value of college networking as now you're less likely to meet the top percentile students of your generation.

I don't think schools were ever that good at educating for real world but they were a good signal. Leading students to believe that just by imitating the signal will lead to success is bound to leave a lot of kids disappointed.

Re: Paly student tells of school stress

#56

I'm five years out from this and still remember the stress. Students are now asked to give up their present for a chance at a good future.

Yes. I did this. And then the day after graduating had an extreme realization that I had no idea why I was doing anything. I'd been on autopilot for the last 9 years. Ran myself into the ground in highschool to graduate top of the class. Killed myself in college to graduate with honors and have a job before graduating. And then I graduated and realized that the next 40 years were in front of me. I didn't know what I…

Being passionate and dare I say obsessive about you work is good. I fact, it's the only way to achieve good results. That's what separates hackers from people that just go to work.

Re: Paly student tells of school stress

#57

My experience through high school was very similar. From grades 9 to 11, I woke up at 6 each day to take a bus to another school to take an engineering class. I then had 7 other periods of the day, each with a 43 minute class (by 11th grade, I gave up lunch to take another class, so I had 8 consecutive periods of class), where teachers assigned ridiculous amounts of homework and made incredibly difficult tests to som…

Have you read Peter Thiel's book Zero to One? He talks about the problem with pursuing tournaments, where people are competing over a fixed opportunity. He used his own experience as a student, a student at Stanford's law school, and then as a hopeful Supreme Court clerkship appointee. At each level he succeeded and found only fiercer competition at the next. Finally, he failed. He didn't get the prestigious appointment as a Supreme Court clerk.

Not long after, he left and did something almost nobody else was doing and the result was Paypal, which made him wealthy and lead to his future as one of the most successful VCs of our era.

Essentially, he said, "Competition is for losers. Go create something nobody else is and build it into a defensible business (i.e. a monopoly on something)."

Re: Paly student tells of school stress

#58
I find this deeply disturbing, particularly because there has never been a better time in recent history to NOT give a damn about how you perform in traditional school systems, if you are unlucky or ignorant enough to be imprisoned in one in the first place. Competitive anxiety is one thing when it compels people to achieve amazing things, and another entirely when it clouds judgment and makes people miserable and on edge so they can merely out-compete the next person, even if the entire competition is largely just a contrived and futile ego game to begin with. People should first think long and hard about why they are striving for whatever it is they are stressing over.

But the truly disturbing thing is that traditional schools still exist, and a frightening number of people -- even some smart people! -- still consider the system humane and somehow necessary. I sometimes can't believe that my younger self was effectively forced to do push-ups, run laps, eat lunch in a crowded cafeteria (that is, navigate the social landscape as someone with anxiety), and memorize court cases, poems, and Greek column types because some older person decided that it was good for me. Because overall it wasn't, and the reason I managed to finish K-12 as a reasonably educated human being instead of a sheep is that I realized the contrived nature of traditional education very early -- like, second grade -- and placed actual education (and, maybe unfortunately, silly but outrageously fun MMORPGs) above “school for the sake of grades”. I learned a lot from school, and even plenty from coursework, but I can hardly imagine the superior human I might be had I been allowed to focus on my personal interests and learn at my own pace.

School is a really bad place for smart kids. It’s disgusting. For every would-be gang member or fry cook who turns out significantly better because he was forced to attend school, there are probably many thousands of bright young people who would much rather be inventing something, experimenting, productively socializing, or studying what they find interesting. If I do one meaningful thing in my life, it will be helping to make that the norm. It’s really a sad thing that some kids with plenty of potential are misguided into thinking that a GPA is more important than knowledge, experience, curiosity, and comprehension. And it’s an atrocity that staggeringly gifted young people can grow up thinking they’re poorly endowed weirdos because, instead of memorizing their way through school, they struggle to actually understand things since their minds refuse to take “that’s just how it works” for an answer, and they bother to "waste time" wondering, "What if...?"

There are far more humane ways to criminally detract from the most important years of young American lives, if that’s the goal of compulsory education.

Re: Paly student tells of school stress

#59

I went to Homestead High School (and have friends that went to Gunn/Paly) and the experiences I've witnessed have been similar. One of my friends has parents that worked at Adobe. During his junior year, he was taking AP Calculus BC, AP Physics C E&M, AP Physics C Mechanics and AP Computer Science. He got straight A's both semesters, and got a 5 on all of the AP tests. I went over to his house during the summer and f…

Pretty lulzy considering Adobe and Intel are both extremely mediocre, even in Silicon Valley.

What an oddly appropriate comment.

Re: Paly student tells of school stress

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Students are now asked to give up their present for a chance at a good future. So... an investment?

It's more than that, unless you consider investing your physical health part of the deal too. As a current mechanical engineering junior, the expectations have gotten really quite insane. In order to graduate on time you have to be taking 15-18 credits of the hardest classes offered at university. Right now I'm in an 18 credit semester, and next I will be taking 17 credits. Currently I'm in fluid mechanics, finite el…

You need to work on organization. I get it hard as hell and their asking a lot, but a lot of what you're "suppose to" do to get good grades and learn is bullshit.
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