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Baseless Calls to Expand Surveillance Fit Familiar, Cynical Pattern

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11–20 of 122 posts

Re: Baseless Calls to Expand Surveillance Fit Familiar, Cynical Pattern

#11

Most things around my life in the last 15 years fit familiar, cynical pattern that politicians spit in our face and get away with it. That leads to desperation and learned helplessness. To give EFF a credit, they actually fight. Unfortunately, quixotically

I wouldn't say it's quixotic, because they do win many fights: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=eff%20wins

Re: Baseless Calls to Expand Surveillance Fit Familiar, Cynical Pattern

#13
post #4

This kind of thing doesn't matter. Encryption simply can't be stopped by governments.

It certainly does matter to me, and your comment makes me wonder if it might matter to you and you don't know it. If you read it, the articles's thrust isn't largely about encryption, it's about mass surveillance.

The reasons it matters to me:

- The government shouldn't have the right to wire-tap all citizens at once. We already established that for analog telephones, but digital has become an excuse to undo the annoying requirement of establishing probable cause. If they have the right to listen to you through mass means, no encryption will help you.

- They are spending our tax dollars doing this. The money matters, and they basically taking our money and using it against us. At best it's a waste of that money.

- If they establish the right to curb strong encryption, you may be right in the sense that it doesn't matter to the criminals who use illegal and strong encryption. But it does matter to the vast majority of the law abiding world who get stuck with "encryption" that is readily readable by anyone who expresses an interest, and allows the govt to keep collecting mass surveillance unhindered.

Re: Baseless Calls to Expand Surveillance Fit Familiar, Cynical Pattern

#14
post #12

Does this EFF post say anything new, or is it voted to the top of the site because (a) anti-surveillance and (b) EFF? I find EFF to be a deeply cynical organization, even though I for the most part share their policy objectives.

Well it mentions all the nice articles about how various talking heads wanting to expand surveillance in one place. But yeah, if you are up to date on other news sources its nothing new.

Re: Baseless Calls to Expand Surveillance Fit Familiar, Cynical Pattern

#15
post #12

Does this EFF post say anything new, or is it voted to the top of the site because (a) anti-surveillance and (b) EFF? I find EFF to be a deeply cynical organization, even though I for the most part share their policy objectives.

Can you give examples of why you think the EFF is cynical? As a frequent donor, I would like another perspective.

Re: Baseless Calls to Expand Surveillance Fit Familiar, Cynical Pattern

#16
post #12

Does this EFF post say anything new, or is it voted to the top of the site because (a) anti-surveillance and (b) EFF? I find EFF to be a deeply cynical organization, even though I for the most part share their policy objectives.

I propose reading it, then you can figure it out yourself.

Re: Baseless Calls to Expand Surveillance Fit Familiar, Cynical Pattern

#17
post #11

Most things around my life in the last 15 years fit familiar, cynical pattern that politicians spit in our face and get away with it. That leads to desperation and learned helplessness. To give EFF a credit, they actually fight. Unfortunately, quixotically

I wouldn't say it's quixotic, because they do win many fights: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=eff%20wins

Quixote did actually win some fights too. FSVO winning.

Re: Baseless Calls to Expand Surveillance Fit Familiar, Cynical Pattern

#18
post #4

This kind of thing doesn't matter. Encryption simply can't be stopped by governments.

It can be outlawed and as a result prevent access to encryption for a large part of the population. Then only technically capable people and motivated criminals would be in a position to use it. The govt would then conflate all encryption with terrorism. If you were found with encrypted communications you would be compelled to give up the key or face prosecution as a terrorist. In front of a jury with no knowledge of encryption other than what they heard on Fox news would guarantee a long sentence or the usual tactic of forcing you to take a plea regardless of your guilt.

Re: Baseless Calls to Expand Surveillance Fit Familiar, Cynical Pattern

#19

Most things around my life in the last 15 years fit familiar, cynical pattern that politicians spit in our face and get away with it. That leads to desperation and learned helplessness. To give EFF a credit, they actually fight. Unfortunately, quixotically

~Desperation and learned helplessness is good! It's part of the plan!~

~I was thinking the other day, and I think I figured out the government's plan for ending terrorism. (Yes, I was wearing my foil hat. Thank you for asking.)~

~What is the goal of terrorism? To make people afraid.~

~How do you end terrorism? Option 1 is to stop the things that make people afraid from happening. But there is an option 2. You can just stop people from being afraid.~

~So who is not afraid of terrorism? Who doesn't even feel a twinge of anxiety about being attacked by terrorists? That's right--terrorists.~

~To stop terrorism, all we have to do is turn everybody into terrorists. Now we don't know how to actually turn an ordinary person into a terrorist, even though the federal TLAs are doing research experiments, but we do know how to treat everyone like they already are terrorists. Do it long enough, and people will eventually get the hint.~

~So it all makes sense now. They want everyone to become a terrorist, so that nobody will be afraid of terrorists, which will destroy terrorism utterly, and so nobody can ever be a terrorist again. Brilliant!~

~I'm sure the EFF means well, but if we stop treating everyone like terrorists, the terrorists win.~

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