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Hello Programmers without Masters degree, what are your future plans?

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Re: Hello Programmers without Masters degree, what are your future plans?

#11

Post by smt88 »

throwaway_ghj wrote: post #4
smt88 wrote: post #2

In my field (web software development), a Masters degree is actually an impediment. People are less willing to hire someone with a Masters or PhD for some reason. Maybe there are exceptions for research positions at big companies, but that'll mostly hold true. Not many people can (or do) write code until 60. Most will become managers. If you don't want to be run over by the next generation, develop and manage the res…

> most coding is treated as a commodity by the business world, and the younger devs have a cost advantage over you. I have an experience advantage of being able to ship working software that actually meets requirements. Unlike many younger devs.

I agree that an experienced coder is more cost effective. But, like I said, coding is treated as a commodity, so lay/businesspeople have a hard time accepting that. They don't understand how awful and unmaintainable a novice's code is.

Re: Hello Programmers without Masters degree, what are your future plans?

#12

Post by pshyco »

bootload wrote: post #6

"If you're a programmer without masters degree in computer science, how are you going to be competitive and keep progressing in future." So University alone determines your ability to succeed? A better question to ask is, "How do I make credentials less important?" (hint: performace), read "After Credentials" ~ http://www.paulgraham.com/credentials.html

Thanks for a view from different angle !

Re: Hello Programmers without Masters degree, what are your future plans?

#13

Post by pshyco »

stray wrote: post #8

I've done just fine so far with a 9th grade education. You may be passed over for jobs by hiring managers who don't understand the value of experience. You don't want to work for them anyway. I'm less than a decade away from 60. And I'm not worried in the slightest.

Really good to know !

Re: Hello Programmers without Masters degree, what are your future plans?

#14

Post by marssaxman »

smt88 wrote: post #11
throwaway_ghj wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most coding is treated as a commodity by the business world, and the younger devs have a cost advantage over you. I have an experience advantage of being able to ship working software that actually meets requirements. Unlike many younger devs.

I agree that an experienced coder is more cost effective. But, like I said, coding is treated as a commodity, so lay/businesspeople have a hard time accepting that. They don't understand how awful and unmaintainable a novice's code is.

I'm happy not working for that kind of meat-grinder company. If all they see when they look at me is a price tag, they clearly aren't the kind of place that can offer work that would be worth my time.

Re: Hello Programmers without Masters degree, what are your future plans?

#15

Post by pshyco »

marssaxman wrote: post #14
smt88 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that an experienced coder is more cost effective. But, like I said, coding is treated as a commodity, so lay/businesspeople have a hard time accepting that. They don't understand how awful and unmaintainable a novice's code is.

I'm happy not working for that kind of meat-grinder company. If all they see when they look at me is a price tag, they clearly aren't the kind of place that can offer work that would be worth my time.

Good thought but not everyone can apply. People have family to feed, debts to clear and have little or no choice !

Re: Hello Programmers without Masters degree, what are your future plans?

#16

Post by bootload »

pshyco wrote: post #12
bootload wrote: post #6

"If you're a programmer without masters degree in computer science, how are you going to be competitive and keep progressing in future." So University alone determines your ability to succeed? A better question to ask is, "How do I make credentials less important?" (hint: performace), read "After Credentials" ~ http://www.paulgraham.com/credentials.html

Thanks for a view from different angle !

Another perspective can be gained reading "Profession" a short story by Azimov ~ http://www.inf.ufpr.br/renato/profession.html and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession_%28short_story%29

Should read performance.

Re: Hello Programmers without Masters degree, what are your future plans?

#17

Post by marssaxman »

pshyco wrote: post #15
marssaxman wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm happy not working for that kind of meat-grinder company. If all they see when they look at me is a price tag, they clearly aren't the kind of place that can offer work that would be worth my time.

Good thought but not everyone can apply. People have family to feed, debts to clear and have little or no choice !

What makes you think I don't? But there are choices, because I live in Seattle. It'd be harder for people not living in a tech hub. Location makes far more difference in one's ability to find a job than a surplus of age/experience/salary, I think.

Re: Hello Programmers without Masters degree, what are your future plans?

#18

Post by argonaut »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #5

I'm 53. I've been a programmer for 30 years, mostly in embedded systems. My explicit career goal is to never become a manager. As you get older/more experienced, it becomes harder to find jobs. When "senior developer" means 5-7 years of experience, what do you do with 30 years? It gets hard to find places that will pay for that experience. I've found, though, that there are jobs. You won't be switching jobs every 1-2…

+1. I know someone around this age, working in kernel-level stuff, very very highly paid. There are only a handful of companies that would hire someone in this area and be willing to pay how much this person is getting paid. The benefit of a long career, though, is that this person personally knows, has worked with, has mentored, and/or has met people working in the same area at all of those companies.

Re: Hello Programmers without Masters degree, what are your future plans?

#19

Post by insoluble »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #5

I'm 53. I've been a programmer for 30 years, mostly in embedded systems. My explicit career goal is to never become a manager. As you get older/more experienced, it becomes harder to find jobs. When "senior developer" means 5-7 years of experience, what do you do with 30 years? It gets hard to find places that will pay for that experience. I've found, though, that there are jobs. You won't be switching jobs every 1-2…

> Along those lines, one of the most valuable things is the bugs you don't write and the bad design decisions you don't make.

This point is very important yet elusive. I do contract development, and it's often difficult to get clients to understand the significance of this point without sounding negative or exaggerated. It would be nice if maybe I knew of some formal studies done in this area to give the clients a more substantive awareness.

Re: Hello Programmers without Masters degree, what are your future plans?

#20

Post by ruraljuror »

smt88 wrote: post #2

In my field (web software development), a Masters degree is actually an impediment. People are less willing to hire someone with a Masters or PhD for some reason. Maybe there are exceptions for research positions at big companies, but that'll mostly hold true. Not many people can (or do) write code until 60. Most will become managers. If you don't want to be run over by the next generation, develop and manage the res…

Could you expand on how you see a masters degree as an impediment? Is it just that you've noticed few people have master's degrees or is it actively an impediment?

The reason I ask is that I am a self-taught web developer (BA in English & Classical Studies) considering getting a master's degree in computer engineering. I am not certain if I do go down that road that I would want to stay in web development, but I am rather passionate about the web so I would not want to rule it out.

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