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Square Prices Its IPO at $9, giving it a $2.7B valuation

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Re: Square Prices Its IPO at $9, giving it a $2.7B valuation

#91
post #82
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are magnetic stripe readers everywhere -- I can't imagine they're that hard or expensive to produce.

I don't imagine they are as straightforward as buying a magnetic reader and putting it in a shell. The interface is somewhat unique after all. It connects through the audio jack. The processing on the software side need to be somewhat custom as well.

Yup, it's as simple as putting a magnetic stripe reader and putting it into a shell. These are a commodity on Alibaba now [1].

The idea of using headphone jack for data transfer has been around since the Commodore PCs [2]

The software side is pretty standard too [3]. It's a standard analog to digital conversion.

[1] http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/headphone-jack-magnetic-card...

[2] http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/crossplatform/transfe... And https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_Datasette

[3] http://www.slideshare.net/ShipengXu/data-transmission-throug...

Re: Square Prices Its IPO at $9, giving it a $2.7B valuation

#92

Is anyone willing to give a contrarian take? I'll give it a shot: Square is an ambitious company with some great engineers, stellar UX and a giant total addressable market. Their business loans are interesting and could grow into something important. Square readers are a fashion accessory for hip businesses. No sooner would a coffee shop be seen without a Square reader and an Edison bulb than its yuppie hipsters patr…

Are people really going to care if their joint of choice changes payment providers? Do people care how cool their bank and credit card company is? Id almost certainly guess not.

The biggest change I can think of from a consumer perspective is the move to tap payments.

Re: Square Prices Its IPO at $9, giving it a $2.7B valuation

#93

Can someone help me understand... Let's say an employee was granted 10,000 stock options at $1/share. They're all vested. Does this mean that each share will be worth $9? So if exercised and cashed out, the employee would essentially earn $80,000 (before taxes)? Trying to understand how the economics of all of this works. Also, does this mean there are 300,000,000 shares? (How many shares do start-ups usually start w…

I'll answer what I can: First, you're correct on the valuation. If they are exercised and cashed out at the IPO price, the employee would earn $80k pre-tax. However, historically most IPOs are priced to get a "bounce" on opening day also there are usually restrictive covenants around the number of insider shares that can be cashed on IPO day. (This is meant to give investors warm fuzzy feelings about the stock.) In a…

I guess what I'm getting at is something like this:

If you're given 1% of the company in the form of stock options as an employee, how can one get a grip on what that's worth should a company IPO? Like, if I came in as a high-level hire at Square. Early in the game. Jack gave me 1% of the company in the form of employee stock options. Now I'm vested. What would that mean to me now, after an IPO? How does one even begin to pick that apart if shares can be created or destroyed whenever?

Maybe I'm asking stupid questions. I'm just trying to understand since in my I'm constantly hearing numbers thrown around and, as a non-finance person, it can be hard to know what's really going on. (Which makes it easy to feel like I'm being taken advantage of.)

Re: Square Prices Its IPO at $9, giving it a $2.7B valuation

#94
post #86

Can someone help me understand... Let's say an employee was granted 10,000 stock options at $1/share. They're all vested. Does this mean that each share will be worth $9? So if exercised and cashed out, the employee would essentially earn $80,000 (before taxes)? Trying to understand how the economics of all of this works. Also, does this mean there are 300,000,000 shares? (How many shares do start-ups usually start w…

A lot of startups start with 10m or 15m

Feels like an insane amount of dilution for early employees.

Re: Square Prices Its IPO at $9, giving it a $2.7B valuation

#95

Why did they agree to go public at such a low valuation when compared to recent rounds? Why wouldn't they wait until a time when the capital markets valued their enterprise more favorably?

maybe they were afraid that time is never comming.

Re: Square Prices Its IPO at $9, giving it a $2.7B valuation

#96

Can someone help me understand... Let's say an employee was granted 10,000 stock options at $1/share. They're all vested. Does this mean that each share will be worth $9? So if exercised and cashed out, the employee would essentially earn $80,000 (before taxes)? Trying to understand how the economics of all of this works. Also, does this mean there are 300,000,000 shares? (How many shares do start-ups usually start w…

It all depends on the start up. Some start ups have a lot of authorized shares and some have less. This is all reflected in the capitalization table (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalization_table) of the company. The cap table also contains information such as the number of preferred shares and different rounds of preferred shares (Series A, B, ...).

What people sometimes don't realize are the liquidation preferences on the preferred shares. The liq pref is usually 1-3x depending on who has the negotiating leverage. Out in SF, most liq prefs are 1x. This means on an acquisition, the investors get 1x whatever they invested first before any common shareholders get paid. This means that many acquisitions are not successful. A good recent example is Rdio (https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/rdio#/entity). They got acquired for 75M, but investors put in 126M. This means the investors lost money, but common shareholders (shares from stock options) got nothing.

A good scenario would be an acquisition where everyone makes money. A good recently example is Business Insider,investors put in 55M, but the company got bought for 343M easily clearing the investor liq pref (https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/business-insider#/en...). Employees with common shares also probably made a good amount as well.

One thing that also hurts employees are the AMT taxes that are associated with exercising the stock options before a liquidation event. In the examples above, employees have to pay taxes on the spread of the strike price to the fair market value of when they exercised. If an employee had a lot of shares, the taxes could end up quite high.(http://employeestockoptions.com/amttax/)

Re: Square Prices Its IPO at $9, giving it a $2.7B valuation

#97
post #56
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While they cannot be underwater, they were granted with a target comp in mind and a low enough IPO can put people well below the targeted value.

Sure. I think that's fine; as long as people aren't losing money on taxes or exercise price. Equity compensation should always be viewed with the appropriate grain of salt—it's an investment, and most likely won't pan out. When the company kills it (Facebook, Apple), it turns everyone into millionaires. Square isn't there yet, though I'm sure a lot of people will have some very nice "bonuses" out of this.

I wouldn't underestimate, if nothing else, the mental impact of being sold on a company with a major piece of comp being RSUs at a price, almost certainly derived from the last round raised, that are then worth a lot less. Obviously nobody will be out-of-pocket on them, but they got a salary much less than they were sold on. This can't work wonders for retention, and makes golden handcuffs more like paper handcuffs.

Re: Square Prices Its IPO at $9, giving it a $2.7B valuation

#98
post #2

Wow, that's priced at ~2.8x 2015 revenue. So low.

If you look at gross profit (164.4 million for the first semester 2015) it's a much more comparable metric to what SaaS revenue would be. The problem with overall revenue in this market it that it's a low margin and more that half of it goes to the credit card companies. With ~328 profit per year, they are getting about 8X multiple - very comparable to Hubspot, Zendesk which are doing terrific in the public markets.…

[deleted]

Re: Square Prices Its IPO at $9, giving it a $2.7B valuation

#99
post #53
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strike prices on common are almost always far far below what investors are paying for preferred shares.

I thought they were priced at the last round price (which is usually a discount if you interpolate the prce between rounds)

I've had this happen, and it's wrong. The price must be adjusted based on the terms. Common stock has basically no terms, so strike price should be much, much lower than what investors are paying for preferred.

Re: Square Prices Its IPO at $9, giving it a $2.7B valuation

#100

Is anyone willing to give a contrarian take? I'll give it a shot: Square is an ambitious company with some great engineers, stellar UX and a giant total addressable market. Their business loans are interesting and could grow into something important. Square readers are a fashion accessory for hip businesses. No sooner would a coffee shop be seen without a Square reader and an Edison bulb than its yuppie hipsters patr…

That's a great example. For contra-contrarian reasons: If your coffee is less than $7.75 (debit card) or $4.00 (credit card), square loses money (cf Starbucks).

Their contract with Starbucks is ending soon. Going forward their reader fees will be profitable to the company.
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