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Gaming the H-1B system for good

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Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#171
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if that was fair for a level 1 computer programmer, (which it isn't) - part of your negotiation process is slotting you in to the title that pays what you want; I currently have the label SysAdmin, but you could easily call me a programmer, a systems engineer or a devops engineer, because my job role includes all those things. (As an aside, sysadmin is the lowest-paid of all of those titles, which suggests that…

To be honest I haven't heard of H1-B candidates negotiating what the prevailing wage will be on their LCA and I'd be surprised if even a handful of employers negotiated on that. But you made my point for me. Your employer could have put you at the higher pay scale but didn't and in fact put you on the lowest of several options. This is the way the system was designed to work.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I was pointing out that there is a lot of effort put into gaming what exactly "market rate" means for any job. A lot of effort put into preventing workers from knowing what other workers make even outside of any government program; It's an adversarial negotiation.

The rule that H1B workers get paid the prevailing wage is... quite difficult to verify or enforce.

My own (completely anecdotal and subjective) experience is that the H1B workers I've known well enough to exchange salary data were either way better than me technically, or they were getting paid way less than I was. My impression is that foreigners (esp. foreigners from lower cost-of-living countries) get paid less for the same skill.

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#172
post #15

This assumes that the H1B's filed by the outsourcing companies are engineers your startup would want to hire. Unfortunately thats not true, most good quality engineers are almost never employed by these outsourcing firms. The general nature of their work also is mostly maintenance based , and it tends to attract bottom of the barrel 'engineers' who often couldn't find any other job. I am skeptical whether any of thes…

In India the jobs represents a pretty good way to get out so you will end up with good people.

I doubt it. You'll wind up with people who studied engineering because their parents made them do it and because it pays well, not because they enjoy it or they're particularly good at it.

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#173
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide some sources?

Can you provide a source that shows the laws of economics not applying to technology labor markets? As for your source -- how about common sense and the most basic econ 101 chart on supply, demand and price? http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.... The higher the supply the lower the price.

I don't know if it counts as a 'source' but tech companies in NYC/Seattle/SF pay $75,000/yr+ to 19-20 year old interns with almost no experience. And not as a rare occurrence, I had 10 offers at the same time any given term and so did most of my classmates.

Hardly sounds like they're being exploited and suffering due to a glut in supply. Either that or "exploitation" rates in the US are double the market rate in Canada/EU.

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#174

I was working on H1-B for 6 years in the USA. The long wait time, and utter unpredictability of the Green Card system was insane. Being Indian didn't help either, as we are subjected to 12+ years of wait (EB3 quota). The stupid H4 laws made my highly qualified wife unable to work. Finally I kicked the plush job and American dreams and moved to Europe. My employer called me ungrateful and selfish for leaving after he…

Hi! I am currently on a student visa in the U.S. and was considering trying the H-1B route. However, since it is so tiresome and it literally can make you waste years of your life, I was thinking to not even bother. When I was doing research, most people say that the US is the best place to be at as a SE. This makes it sound like if you are doomed everywhere else. I am happy to see that you seem to be a counterexampl…

> it literally can make you waste years of your life

Not sure why you would consider those years "wasted". You're working, gaining experience and making money. Since the job market is great, an H-1B isn't really something that would keep you back from negotiating your salary or anything else.

Getting the green card is a bit different, but there have been some reforms over the last few years.

I'd personally recommend it (having been on L-1B and H-1B).

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#175
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi! I am currently on a student visa in the U.S. and was considering trying the H-1B route. However, since it is so tiresome and it literally can make you waste years of your life, I was thinking to not even bother. When I was doing research, most people say that the US is the best place to be at as a SE. This makes it sound like if you are doomed everywhere else. I am happy to see that you seem to be a counterexampl…

> it literally can make you waste years of your life Not sure why you would consider those years "wasted". You're working, gaining experience and making money. Since the job market is great, an H-1B isn't really something that would keep you back from negotiating your salary or anything else. Getting the green card is a bit different, but there have been some reforms over the last few years. I'd personally recommend…

Yes, you are right. Thanks! I was kind of depressed because of my slim chances, but with all these responses I certainly am looking differently at this situation.

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people here a critical of the visa system because it drives wages down. This is an effect of employers having way too much leverage in the current system, the H1B being attached to your current employement. If you provide for equal rights between americans, permanent residents and non-immigrant workers, you cut that leverage out of employers' hands and empoyer non-immigrant workers to negociate market rate c…

Having lived in both Switzerland and US I have to say that US is much more friendly towards the immigrants from non-EU countries. Swiss make it nearly impossible for people outside EU to get a permanent redidence permit (have to wait for 10 years for a C permit) whereas in US there are multiple paths (EB1-3, NIV) and a plethora of employers (tech companies in West and East coast at least) who would offer GC sponsorsh…

Sure. But other EU countries are way more friendly. For example, Sweden I believe gives you a path to citizenship of close to 5 years. In the U.S., it would be > 5 years assuming non spousal green card.

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#177
This is my life story in US till now. My H1B visa was applied thru one of the biggest Indian consulting companies and I started working in Kansas. The project was awesome and I loved the work and our team was programming for the connected cars. We were paid peanuts by our employer around 62K which was the bare minimum mandated by LCA in Kansas location. But I didn't care about the peanuts they were giving me , I loved the project and my client. We were doing something cool which wasn't CRUD ;)

During that time , I got promoted and my salary increased by 200$/month. At the same time , another vendor took over our project. So the resource management people from my employer called me and told "Since you are earning more salary ( 62K + 200$/month ) , you are not eligible for any other job location as per the company policy and you have to go back to India. So book your tickets & get ready to fly back !

The amount of depression I had to face was immense. It was December in Kansas and it was very cold. I remember smoking 2 packs of cigarettes inside my apartment every day. I had a used car which was under loan from DCU. My apartment lease had 5-6 months left. I was in total jeopardy thinking what to do. Thank god I was not married & had kids going to school, because pulling kids out of school and flying them back to India , making them adjust to the environment back in India would have been a nightmare. Kids will have had a huge culture shock.

Still, being a bachelor, I felt very bad. But I put myself together and started applying for companies thru linkedin and indeed. Two companies responded and I went thru many levels of interview ( I already had flight tickets booked, my bags almost packed and gave power of attorney to my friend to sell the car and settle the loan ). With all those things happening in the background , I cleared the interview for both of the companies for full time employment. I had to fly to company locations for face to face. ( Both companies arranged the travel & stay )

Both companies were ready to transfer my H1B visa. I chose the big financial services company thinking about my job security as an H1B worker. Here comes the catch ! They were not ready to negotiate the salary. They are no small company ( It is the top financial services company)

The HR knew very well knew that I was on H1B and the stupid me told them that I desperately need to transfer my visa , since my Indian employer told me to go back to India. So they took advantage of the situation and were not willing to negotiate. I had to settle with 80K/year with the big financial services company and they transferred my visa in premium & I resigned from the Indian employer. It was either take it or leave situation and I had no other choice but to accept the offer.

To summarise , I am no low skilled worker and I cleared the interviews very well. I am well qualified and good at my programming skills. The American counterparts in my office earn more than me ( ~120K ) for the same skillset and work that I do. So how did I ended up like this ? Just because of this broken immigration system. I had to transfer my visa without negotiating my salary because of my situation and the rule that I will be out of status from the very next day my employer stops my payroll.

" I was the victim of this broken immigration system of US ". My situation is one of the examples of how employers abuse H1B workers.

I am getting married in Jan 2016, so I will stay with my current employer which took advantage of my situation. And hey my future wife can't work on H4 !. She recently resigned her job at Oracle in India and is preparing for the wedding. I feel bad for her because now she has to sit in the apartment and watch TV wasting her productive years in US. She is a Masters degree holder in finance & has excellent communication skills in both English & French.

So what do I plan to do now ?. Since im getting married in Jan 2016, I will wait till then. Once I get married , I will switch employer and negotiate a good salary because right now I am not in that situation while I was in Kansas.

Will I wait for my greencard to be processed ( 6-7 years ) NO. Why ? I am 30 now , so it will be 38,39 when I get my freedom and that too with the ever changing rules of USCIS. I don't want to try my luck.

Will I wait for my I-140 to be approved so that my wife can work ? NO. Why ? Again I dont trust this broken immigration system.

So what am I going to do about this ? , Canadian Express Entry gives importance to skilled workers rather than the lottery system and I will get PR within 6 months. My fiance is a degree holder and will get extra points for French. So we will qualify for the PR system.

I don't want to wait in this uncertainty till I grow old to get my freedom. I rather trust Canadian Express Entry and move to Canada.

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#178

I was working on H1-B for 6 years in the USA. The long wait time, and utter unpredictability of the Green Card system was insane. Being Indian didn't help either, as we are subjected to 12+ years of wait (EB3 quota). The stupid H4 laws made my highly qualified wife unable to work. Finally I kicked the plush job and American dreams and moved to Europe. My employer called me ungrateful and selfish for leaving after he…

Hi! I am currently on a student visa in the U.S. and was considering trying the H-1B route. However, since it is so tiresome and it literally can make you waste years of your life, I was thinking to not even bother. When I was doing research, most people say that the US is the best place to be at as a SE. This makes it sound like if you are doomed everywhere else. I am happy to see that you seem to be a counterexampl…

Move to Toronto, pay is better than Europe and moving to the US from there is a step away.

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#179

I was working on H1-B for 6 years in the USA. The long wait time, and utter unpredictability of the Green Card system was insane. Being Indian didn't help either, as we are subjected to 12+ years of wait (EB3 quota). The stupid H4 laws made my highly qualified wife unable to work. Finally I kicked the plush job and American dreams and moved to Europe. My employer called me ungrateful and selfish for leaving after he…

How easy was the transition to EU? Are visa-required jobs advertised upfront.

I thought EU was way worse on Indians[regarding IT jobs]

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#180
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To start with GC wage levels are much higher than H1B levels. And that exactly defines the problem and why US citizens, in general, hate the H1-B program. The solution to the H1-B program is to transition H1-B's to green cards in 12 months. The company sponsoring the H1-B is responsible executing the paperwork, background checks, and posting a bond to fund the spot checks, investigations, etc. H1-B sponsors will dr…

This will cause "labor abandonment" and put more pressure on the economy. Here is an example --- a company uses a worked for just 1-2 years, sponsors his green card and then fires him. Now if he cannot find a job then if he were on the previous H1B, then he will have to leave the US. However, now, he can stay without a job with no risk of removal, which means he is a liability to the country.

I'm having a difficult time parsing your grammar, so I'm not sure what you are trying to explain.

> This will cause "labor abandonment" and put more pressure on the economy.

There is no evidence that companies are having trouble finding workers outside of Silicon Valley. Precisely the opposite, they are laying off people.

Companies don't fire a person who suddenly has a green card. That person voluntarily leaves for a better job.

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