Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Gaming the H-1B system for good

blog.triplebyte.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 227 posts

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#121

Post by finance-geek »

djb_hackernews wrote: post #70
shas3 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no tech labor shortage. "Tech labor shortage" is not a clear-cut black-and-white issue. The market is not fully elastic to easily use terms such as 'shortage', etc. Say, you need to build a team of 5 machine learning scientist with specific experience in image recognition, there may be 100 people in the country specializing in this field, and perhaps 10 of them are the job market, and 7 are international c…

why would only 10% of qualified individuals be on the market? Wouldn't all of them be? Unless you are counting retired, infirmed, and imprisoned? Generally skilled engineers are great for training programs.

For one thing...the pay is often too low. Qualified individuals may be on the market, but not on the tech market. Same reason why so many Physics PhDs who can program C++ in their sleep choose to go to Wall St instead of Silicon Valley. Labor sits on the periphery but wont dive in unless they get market pay.

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#123

Post by _hartem »

erispoe wrote: post #119
FlyingSnake wrote: post #105

I was working on H1-B for 6 years in the USA. The long wait time, and utter unpredictability of the Green Card system was insane. Being Indian didn't help either, as we are subjected to 12+ years of wait (EB3 quota). The stupid H4 laws made my highly qualified wife unable to work. Finally I kicked the plush job and American dreams and moved to Europe. My employer called me ungrateful and selfish for leaving after he…

A lot of people here a critical of the visa system because it drives wages down. This is an effect of employers having way too much leverage in the current system, the H1B being attached to your current employement. If you provide for equal rights between americans, permanent residents and non-immigrant workers, you cut that leverage out of employers' hands and empoyer non-immigrant workers to negociate market rate c…

Having lived in both Switzerland and US I have to say that US is much more friendly towards the immigrants from non-EU countries. Swiss make it nearly impossible for people outside EU to get a permanent redidence permit (have to wait for 10 years for a C permit) whereas in US there are multiple paths (EB1-3, NIV) and a plethora of employers (tech companies in West and East coast at least) who would offer GC sponsorship as part of the deal.

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#124

Post by finance-geek »

dangrossman wrote: post #80
djb_hackernews wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has a price... If there are experts out there that fit your need but you can't attract them because you aren't paying enough then you should increase your offer. Supply will meet demand.

Businesses don't have infinite resources to hire workers, and most workers old enough to truly be experts are not going to relocate easily. 1x, 2x, even 3x market wages won't be enough to move someone that's already earning a comfortable wage, likes their job, and has roots (a home, a spouse that likes their job, children in school, family nearby) in their current community. No single digit multiple of market wages w…

Luckily, you are just one person. Here, we're speaking about an entire market. And yes, 2x and 3x market wages would absolutely cause major shifts in labor. Even < 2x market wages would accomplish this. It already happens the other way, 1.5x and 2x market wage multiples drive flow of skilled engineers from California to Wall Street.

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#125

Post by xipho »

xbeta wrote: post #107
FD3SA wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TN allows for 3 years per visa and unlimited visa renewals, so as long as you demonstrate that you aren't trying to gain citizenship, the US embassy shouldn't mind. As a Canadian, I have no interest in becoming a US citizen. On a TN visa you can open bank accounts (including investment), buy cars and real estate and do everything other than start a company. It's incredibly convenient and painless compared to an H1-B.…

That's BS. TN doesn't help Canadians with family. Also US CBP can always terminate your TN visa on the border if they "think" you are abusing. H-1B is safer for that reason.

Any visa can be terminated for any reason at the border, no difference there b/w TN and H-1B (IANAL).

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#126

Post by finance-geek »

anpk wrote: post #110
jamisteven wrote: post #104

H1b's are killing IT salaries in the states.

Can you provide some sources?

Can you provide a source that shows the laws of economics not applying to technology labor markets?

As for your source -- how about common sense and the most basic econ 101 chart on supply, demand and price? http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.... The higher the supply the lower the price.

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#127

Post by finance-geek »

padiyar83 wrote: post #39
djb_hackernews wrote: post #24

I sort of like this except startups typically pay below market salaries which is sort of against the spirit of the H1-B visa right? And if the startups aren't paying below market salaries then why do they need H1-Bs? Suppose I am an SF based startup and I get a candidate from triplebyte that is on H1-B and is paid 66k by a body shop as a Level 1 Computer Programmer [0] but she is obviously talented and got taken adva…

Its a myth that H1b visa employees are not paid in par with local employees and are hired solely to save/cut costs, you cannot make that allegation without data that shows the wage gap between H1 vs non H1 workers, keeping all other factors same. Yes some outsourcing companies do pay less, but that's not the industry norm, most companies that hire H1b visa holders as direct employees (as opposed to contracting them f…

A major reason my previous employer hired H1s was their inability to easily change jobs. This provided stability to the company. It also provided the H1 workers near-zero ability to quickly jump at opportunities, change jobs, negotiate salary, get raises or anything that typical free agents can do. You basically got to freeze someone's salary for 5 to 8 years.

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#129

Post by finance-geek »

refurb wrote: post #101
Apocryphon wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's somewhat more accurate to liken it to indentured servitude.

So you're saying H1-B workers can't leave? That's not true.

Are you saying they can leave with the same ease that citizens can leave? That's not true.

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#130

Post by finance-geek »

elbigbad wrote: post #88
sytelus wrote: post #59

Whole H1B system is essentially modern form of slavery. I've seen people becoming multi-millionaires exploiting this slavery system. Companies in India have amassed massive revenues exploiting the same. The way it works is you put advertise in newspaper for minimum expected wage for tech worker. Then you buy a genius 3rd world tech worker and sell him/her to clients for approximately twice that rate. Then you put sig…

So, if I understand this correctly, they're essentially casting the H1Bs as commodities? "Purchasing" them for X salary, and then "selling" them for x + y salary? If this characterization is correct, isn't this essentially what a typical staffing company does? That is, put a worker in a position at a third party company as a temp paying them x salary, then collecting from the client third party company x + y salary.…

Yes, this is indeed what a typical staffing company does -- except citizens at staffing companies can jump ship anytime when a better opportunity comes their way. H1Bs, while not shackled, have a lot of tethers to their current employer which makes switching very difficult. Their lightly-tied handcuffs also make it very difficult to find better jobs/salaries/negotiate and result in holding wages down.
Post reply on HN